Manny vs Allen

[Bill Burgess]

Your list for Manny is complete, your list for Allen isn't. Here is a much fuller list of Allen's competitors:

NL
Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Roberto Clemente, Orlando Cepeda, Billy Williams, Willie McCovey, Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Willie Stargell, Lou Brock, Ron Santo, Vada Pinson, Jimmy Wynn, Ken Boyer, Tony Perez, Johnny Bench, Ernie Banks, Joe Torre Rusty Staub, Matty Alou

AL
Harmon Killebrew, Carl Yaztremski, Frank Howard, Frank Robinson again, Reggie Jackson, Rod Carew, Carlton Fisk, Tony Oliva, Luis Aparicio, Sal Bando, Boog Powell, Bobby Murcer, Norm Cash, Reggie Smith, Roy White, George Scott

Many of Allen's rivals were WAY past their primes. Pinson, Banks were not truly competitive anymore after 1964.

And some of his AL rivals in 1973 were past their glory days too. Yaz, Oliva, Robinson, Aparicio?, Cash? Why are Aparicio/Cash included for the 1973-74 period.

Bill

[leecemark]

--Ah, you did do a little fact checking after posting eh Bill. Makes my chiding unneccesary. All Manny's "rivals" weren't neccesarily having their best years against him either. Both lists were streched a little to make whichever side look better.

[Myankee4life]

Your list for Manny is complete, your list for Allen isn't. Here is a much fuller list of Allen's competitors:

NL
Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Roberto Clemente, Orlando Cepeda, Billy Williams, Willie McCovey, Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Willie Stargell, Lou Brock, Ron Santo, Vada Pinson, Jimmy Wynn, Ken Boyer, Tony Perez, Johnny Bench, Ernie Banks, Joe Torre Rusty Staub, Matty Alou

AL
Harmon Killebrew, Carl Yaztremski, Frank Howard, Frank Robinson again, Reggie Jackson, Rod Carew, Carlton Fisk, Tony Oliva, Luis Aparicio, Sal Bando, Boog Powell, Bobby Murcer, Norm Cash, Reggie Smith, Roy White, George Scott

Those guys are better than Manny's competitors. If you think otherwise, then you're being buffaloed by gaudy traditional stats.

I think you're being buffaloed with league quality adjustments.

[538280]

I think you're being buffaloed with league quality adjustments.

This isn't the deadball era we're talking about here man, I think Manny's league was very strong historically, just a bit behind Allen's. I don't give Manny a huge LQ knock against Allen, just a very small one. Manny's league doesn't have any competitiors near Mays, Aaron, and Robinson.

[Myankee4life]

This isn't the deadball era we're talking about here man, I think Manny's league was very strong historically, just a bit behind Allen's. I don't give Manny a huge LQ knock against Allen, just a very small one. Manny's league doesn't have any competitiors near Mays, Aaron, and Robinson.

Even if I give you those 3....how about the other players. A league is not made up of 3 players you know.

[538280]

Even if I give you those 3....how about the other players. A league is not made up of 3 players you know.

All right. The rest in the NL, after those three are like this:

Roberto Clemente, Orlando Cepeda, Billy Williams, Willie McCovey, Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Willie Stargell, Lou Brock, Ron Santo, Ken Boyer, Tony Perez, Johnny Bench, Ernie Banks

That's just as good as the top echelon guys from Manny's era. Add in the big 3 and it's not that close.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

This isn't the deadball era we're talking about here man, I think Manny's league was very strong historically, just a bit behind Allen's. I don't give Manny a huge LQ knock against Allen, just a very small one. Manny's league doesn't have any competitiors near Mays, Aaron, and Robinson.

Griffey, A-Rod, Thomas, Thome, Degado, etc.

A-Rod matches up well with Aaron, Griffey (in the 1990s) matches up well with Mays.