MLB All-Century revised....

[George H Ruth]

If you were to re-do the MLB All Century Team from 1999, what changes would you make? (Just for fun)

Pitchers

* Nolan Ryan (992,040 votes)
* Sandy Koufax (970,434)
* Cy Young (867,523)
* Roger Clemens (601,244)
* Bob Gibson (582,031)
* Walter Johnson (479,279)
* Warren Spahn* (337,215)
* Christy Mathewson* (249,747)
* Lefty Grove* (142,169)

Catchers

* Johnny Bench (1,010,403)
* Yogi Berra (704,208)

First Basemen

* Lou Gehrig (1,207,992)
* Mark McGwire (517,181)

Second Basemen

* Jackie Robinson (788,116)
* Rogers Hornsby (630,761)

Third Basemen

* Mike Schmidt (855,654)
* Brooks Robinson (761,700)

Shortstops

* Cal Ripken, Jr. (669,033)
* Ernie Banks (598,168)
* Honus Wagner* (526,740)

Outfielders

* Babe Ruth (1,158,044)
* Hank Aaron (1,156,782)
* Ted Williams (1,125,583)
* Willie Mays (1,115,896)
* Joe DiMaggio (1,054,423)
* Mickey Mantle (988,168)
* Ty Cobb (777,056)
* Ken Griffey, Jr. (645,389)
* Pete Rose (629,742)
* Stan Musial* (571,279)

Hopefully there's going to be some good participation. You can move players as well, like rank them where you think they belong.

[digglahhh]

Most egregiously, Banks, Brooksie, Ryan, and Rose have to go.

The creative way I would do this is to swap Brooksie w/A-Rod.

Bonds for Rose

Drop Ryan and since there are 3 SSes (b/c the public was too dumb to know who Wagner was), I'll replace Banks with another pitcher. So Ryan and Banks can be replaced with Maddux and your pick of Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez or Tom Seaver.

Personally, I'd chuck Koufax too and get somebody else in his place, but I could see the argument for Sandy.

One could also lobby for a reliever, I guess. The consensus would be Mo, but I'd rather see Hoyt Wilhelm.

Now, I couldn't do my creative Brooksie for A-Rod swap before 2G, since A-Rod hadn't made the move yet; I'm aware of that.

[Wade8813]

Do you want us doing this based on what existed in 1999? Or can we also update it for today?

[George H Ruth]

Update it from today, but most of the players on the list are retired anyways, so it doesn't really matter.

[dgarza]

So Ryan and Banks can be replaced with Maddux and your pick of Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez or Tom Seaver.

Personally, I'd chuck Koufax too and get somebody else in his place, but I could see the argument for Sandy.

Really Alexander should be there somewhere.

[dgarza]

First Basemen

* Lou Gehrig (1,207,992)
* Mark McGwire (517,181)

I realize why McGwire would get so much support in 1999, but there are clearly better 1B.

[parlo]

Right off the bat, I would swap Ryan for Seaver.
The rest of it will take me some time.

[Wade8813]

1B Gehrig, Foxx

2B Hornsby, Lajoie

SS Wagner, Alex Rodriguez

3B Mike Schmidt

CA Bench, Cochrane

OF Ruth, Bonds, Mantle, Speaker, Mays, Rickey Henderson

DH Ted Williams

SP Walter, Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Lefty Grove, Clemens

RP Wilhelm, Rivera, Quisenberry, Trevor Hoffman,Billy Wagner, Eckersley,John Franco, Sparky Lyle, Rollie Fingers

Starting Lineup
1. Wagner
2. Williams
3. Hornsby
4. Ruth
5. Bonds
6. Mantle
7. Gehrig
8. Schmidt
9. Bench

I think this is how I'd do it.

[gojays]

Both Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson deserve to be on there.

[Wade8813]

I have nothing against people who put them on their lists, but I don't have any idea how to rank them, so I don't try to. The same applies for players pre-1900.

[philkid3]

Changes in bold.

Pitchers

Walter Johnson
Lefty Grove
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Pedro Martinez
Greg Maddux
Roger Clemens
Tom Seaver


Catchers

Johnny Bench
Yogi Berra


First Basemen

Lou Gehrig
Jimmie Foxx


Second Basemen

Rogers Hornsby
Joe Morgan
Eddie Collins


Third Basemen

Mike Schmidt
Wade Boggs


Shortstops

Honus Wagner
Alex Rodriguez


Outfielders

Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Ted Williams
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Ty Cobb
Hank Aaron
Stan Musial
Tris Speaker
Joe DiMaggio
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson

[willshad]

strange to look back now and see that Griffey was picked over Bonds, but when you see how they both stood at the time, its understandable. Bonds was 34 and coming off an injury season...there were debates at the time as to whether he would even get to 500 homers for his career. Griffey was 5 years younger, and only about 47 home runs behind Bonds..coming off 5 straight monster seasons. At the time it certainly appeared that Griffey, though maybe didnt have the better carrer than Bonds at that point, would certainly END UP with a better career. Amazing what steroids and injuries can do.
They seemed to jump the gun a bit with guys like Mcgwire and Griffey, both of whom didnt end up quite as good as predicted. Weird that they didnt do the same for other guys who were beasts in the 90s, then tailed off in the 200s, like Frank Thomas, Mike Piazza, and Greg Maddux
Anyway, I probably would put Madux or Seaver over Ryan, Foxx over Mcgwire, Matthews over Brooks Robinson, Speaker or Bonds over Griffey, then throw in Piazza and Thomas (or Bagwell) so you have more current players on it.

[philkid3]

At the time it certainly appeared that Griffey, though maybe didnt have the better carrer than Bonds at that point, would certainly END UP with a better career. Amazing what steroids and injuries can do.

At that point no one even thought Bonds had had a better career up to then, let alone would. Griffey was the resounding "player of the 90s," and everyone else was in the minority.

Strangely, I was a teenager who barely knew who Bill James was, had no idea what his ideals were or anything to do with sabermetrics at all, but I thought the idea of Griffey being better than Bonds was a little questionable and thought Bonds should have been on the All-Century team.

Though, admittedly, because I overrated the value of the 400/400 thing.

They seemed to jump the gun a bit with guys like Mcgwire and Griffey, both of whom didnt end up quite as good as predicted. Weird that they didnt do the same for other guys who were beasts in the 90s, then tailed off in the 200s, like Frank Thomas, Mike Piazza, and Greg Maddux

Again, I was a kid and realized McGwire was just on because '98 was so fresh in our minds and a few people belonged more than Griffey. I also voted for Maddux and thought Piazza should have been a candidate.

Looking back, I was probably the only 14 year old that thought that way, but I don't seem so crazy to most people nowadays. At least not Baseball Fever types.



In hindsight, the fact that Wade Boggs wasn't even nominated was insane. Absolutely, mind-bendingly insane.

[philkid3]

On-topic, it should still be pointed out that a lot of people do still consider Junior the player of the 90s. Mike and Mike and Tim Kurkjian were talking about how he was the "no question" best player of the decade a few weeks ago.

[parlo]

On-topic, it should still be pointed out that a lot of people do still consider Junior the player of the 90s. Mike and Mike and Tim Kurkjian were talking about how he was the "no question" best player of the decade a few weeks ago.

He was the biggest attraction I think.
In other words, I think Jr put a lot of fans in the seats of stadiums he was visiting.
Regardless of whether he was the best player or not, he was definitely the "IT" guy of the nineties.
Does that make sense???