Players who were great, but wouldn't be great now?

[Chickazoola]

So my idea for this thread is to look back upon some players who were great during their time, but probably wouldn't be great today for whatever reason(and no being old or dead doesn't count).

I am thinking in terms of physical, mental, or emotional limitations, and also in terms of a player lacking certain on-field abilities, or being too one-dimensional.

My first example would probably be Rube Waddell simply based on the fact that no team would put up with him. Whatever the reason for his zaniness(autism, retardation, just a wild and crazy guy), he likely wouldn't pass any of the psychological profiling.

I love Johnny Evers, but I think his tiny frame (listed as 5'6 and 125) would be prohibitive to him making the majors nowadays.

Pete Browning was nickname the Gladiator due to his inability to catch fly balls(he fielded .791 one year as an outfielder, which may be my favorite stat ever), a fact that would probably limit his chances. Although a big glove might have helped him.

[parlo]

The number of players who were major alcoholics is endless. They didnt just get drunk regularly, they were chronic heavy drinkers. That would never go over today, the press wouldnt hide it or pretend that it was funny.

But I will start with Cobb.
Today, he would be in trouble with the law constantly.
He would not have a compliant press to fabricate stories for him.
And he would be poison in the clubhouse.
Team ownership would want to cut their ties with him.
If John Rocker caused problems, can you imagine what Cobb would do.
He would be a great player, but a journeyman. Eventually a Gibson type pitcher would drill him.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

The number of players who were major alcoholics is endless. They didnt just get drunk regularly, they were chronic heavy drinkers. That would never go over today, the press wouldnt hide it or pretend that it was funny.

But I will start with Cobb.
Today, he would be in trouble with the law constantly.
He would not have a compliant press to fabricate stories for him.
And he would be poison in the clubhouse.
Team ownership would want to cut their ties with him.
If John Rocker caused problems, can you imagine what Cobb would do.
He would be a great player, but a journeyman. Eventually a Gibson type pitcher would drill him.

I'm respecting your post but I have to say that If Cobb were born in the last 30 or 50 years he would probably not even resemble the Cobb we knew who was born in 1886.

Any player we either transfer from today to Cobb's time or those we transfer from Cobb's time to the present should never be as they were or are in their time. It would be a far different world that they would be born in.

[AstrosFan]

Agreed. You should never time-machine, but rather presume that the player is born in some year in the future.

[parlo]

I'm respecting your post but I have to say that If Cobb were born in the last 30 or 50 years he would probably not even resemble the Cobb we knew who was born in 1886.

Any player we either transfer from today to Cobb's time or those we transfer from Cobb's time to the present should never be as they were or are in their time. It would be a far different world that they would be born in.

I hear what you are saying, but Cobbs problems went far beyond racism.
I dont think any anger management class was going to solve his demons.

Plenty of players were racist.
Cobb committed crimes.

[Iron Jaw]

I suppose we could open a counter post: Players who are great now, but wouldn't be great then.:cap:

[Chickazoola]

I suppose we could open a counter post: Players who are great now, but wouldn't be great then.:cap:

That was on my mind too.

[ElHalo]

Batters: Ross Barnes
Pitchers: Ed Walsh

Hard to be truly great when your main ability is now a rule violation.

[Iron Jaw]

Batters: Ross Barnes
Pitchers: Ed Walsh

Hard to be truly great when your main ability is now a rule violation.

Such as, pre-1920 pitchers who threw a legal spitter.

[parlo]

I wonder about some of the HR hitters like Wilson, Foxx, and Mel Ott. As much as I like Ott, he was able to exploit the short foul pole at the Polo Grounds. He has a very big HOME/ROAD differential.
Who knows, maybe today he would have adapted to whatever home park he played in. But I cant help but think that he might be a Craig Nettles type hitter today. Good, but not a HOFer.

[Brian McKenna]

Cobb committed crimes.

Please document outside the normal fighting stuff you see with many ballplayers.

[Chickazoola]

I wonder about some of the HR hitters like Wilson, Foxx, and Mel Ott. As much as I like Ott, he was able to exploit the short foul pole at the Polo Grounds. He has a very big HOME/ROAD differential.
Who knows, maybe today he would have adapted to whatever home park he played in. But I cant help but think that he might be a Craig Nettles type hitter today. Good, but not a HOFer.

The think about Ott is he still hit really well on the road, he just didn't hit nearly as many homeruns, instead he had more doubles and triples.

[Chickazoola]

Please document outside the normal fighting stuff you see with many ballplayers.

Well he did beat the hell out of Claude Leucker(sp?), there was the incident with the black groundskeeper where he ended up choking the guy's wife. Both of which aren't normal ballplayer stuff. He was never charged with any crimes, but I don't think it makes the acts any less criminal.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

The think about Ott is he still hit really well on the road, he just didn't hit nearly as many homeruns, instead he had more doubles and triples.

I would guess that a good number of those home runs that cleared the short walls down the line ( especially RF) at the Polo Grounds turned into doubles and triples at bigger parks on the road.

I might add Mel must have had some pop in his bat for a 170 pound hitter. That 306 doubles on the road is up there with some of the best on the road per at bat, like Hornsby and Cobb.

It's also evident he was feared much more at home with that close wall in RF. Walks at home 949- road 759, thats 190 more BBs at home.

Mel did have a favorable condition at home with the short distances down the line but Ted Williams seemed to downplay that advantage. He saw it differently saying that he credited Mel with using that short distance, tailoring his swing to make the most of it. According to Ted who saw him play they tried to pitch him outside and when they did he would take the BB and his home/away BBs show that to be true.

[Los Bravos]

There are a lot of prewar guys who had body types that make me skeptical of their being able to compete today, even with allowances made for the better training and nutrition today's players (and players going back for a while, now) would have had.