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  • Best Firstbasemen of All Time

    --I am hoping to push for a little more thought put into these and a broader scope than our previous best position player polls. I'll be asking for top 20 rather than top 10. This will probably make for more interesting discussion as we're mined the ground pretty heavy on the very top guys. Discussion will be encouraged - at least to the point of comments along side your rankings (not required).
    --The actual ranking will be for MLB players only. We've had some issues in the past where some rank Negro leguers highly and others exclude them entirely. That makes it difficult to slot with with any kind of fairness. What I'm asking for here is an addendum to your ballot which catergorizes them in one of the following ways; 1) probably best ever at their position, 2) probably top 5 at their position, 3) probably top 10 at their position, 4) probably top 20 at their position. The final ranking will slot them accordingly. I'll ask for the same type addendum for non-US players for those who wish to comment on them.
    --I'll also ask you to list the Hall of Famers outside your top 20 in a separate addendum. Not that it won't be easy to identify them without it, but just to show; a) you considered all the likley candidates and b) to illustrate where mistakes have been made and highlight the players who do make the top 20 and are not in the Hall of Fame.

  • #2
    1) Lou Gehrig: Should be unanimous
    2) Jimmie Foxx: if he had taken better care of himself maybe he's #1
    3) Cap Anson: best player of the 19th century
    4) Jeff Bagwell: terrific in every area
    5) Willie McCovey: Monster peak and long career
    6) Frank Thomas: Early years suggested challenge to Gehrig, but it wasn't to be
    7) Hank Greenberg: If not for WWII....
    8) Johnny Mize: Greenberg of the NL
    9) Harmon Killebrew: McCovey of the AL
    10) Eddie Murray: Mr Consistency but lacked super years of above
    11) Dan Brouthers: Best bat of the 19th century?
    12) Roger Conners: narrow 3rd of the great 19th century first sackers
    13) Dick Allen: could hit with the best, but personal issues cut career short
    14) Kieth Hernandez: good bat , GREAT glove
    15) Mark McGwire: could easily be higher, but could he have done it clean?
    16) Tony Perez: poor man's Allen - but better citizenship lead to long career
    17) Orlando Cepeda: started better than McCovey, but knees betrayed him
    18) Fred McGriff: poor man's Eddie Murrray
    19) Will Clark: another great start who fell off due to injuries
    20) George Sisler: narrowly edges Mattlingly - careers are similar in type and value but Sisler was further ahead of 1B field in his time
    --Amoung Negro Leaguers I think only Buck Leonard is a probable for this list. I'll call him a probable top 10, although that is a challenge at a position with such depth. Sadaharu Oh is another non-MLB firstbaseman who may belong in the top 10.
    --Hall of Famers not in the top 20; Frank Chance, Bill Terry, Jake Beckley, Jim Bottomley and George Kelley. The last 3 aren't even close.

    Comment


    • #3
      1 Lou Gehrig---Ummmm DUH?
      2 Jimmie Foxx, agreed Mark...baseball's #1 could have been
      3 Willie McCovey, great peak, 4 decades.....
      4 Dan Brouthers, best hitter of the 1800s
      5 Cap Anson, great longetivity, great contact hitter
      6 FRANK THOMAS, not hanging on, still contributing
      7 Jeff Bagwell, love to have seen him finish up healthy, may have challenged Foxx
      8 Johnny Mize, underrated, but monster years in STL
      9 Hank Greenberg, another 5 years and he's #2
      X Sadaharu Oh, Nippon slugger could very well be as high as 5
      10 Roger Connor, end of a bunch of guys, dropoff follows
      11 Mark McGwire, the best of the one dimensional sluggers
      12 George Sisler, great for a little while
      13 JIM THOME, see comment on McGwire
      X Mule Suttles, higher than most...comparible to Foxx
      14 Eddie Murray, Mr. Consistency
      15 TODD HELTON, yes, I know he played in Coors
      16 CARLOS DELGADO, keeps getting it done, but this is his limit
      X Buck Leonard, probably too low for Buck
      17 Rafael Palmeiro, even with the steroid discount
      18 Fred McGriff, Murray light
      19 Will Clark, sweet swing, great glove, flamed out too fast
      20 Bill Terry, era can only drop him so far

      HOFers outside looking in: Beckley, Perez, Cepeda, Bottomley and Chance

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Lou Gehrig -- Easy number one.
        2. Jeff Bagwell -- Only recently started putting him this high. Amazingly underrated complete player.
        3. Jimmie Foxx -- Usually my No. 2 in the past.
        4. Frank Thomas -- Such an amazing hitter in his prime.
        5. Cap Anson -- Tend to agree; best player of the 1800s.
        6. Dan Brouthers -- Best hitter before Cobb for me.
        7. Johnny Mize -- Seems so very underrated.
        8. Roger Connor
        9. Hank Greenberg
        10. Mark McGwire -- Depressing to think his awesome show was disingenuine.
        11. Dick Allen -- Should have been in the Hall of Fame a long time ago.
        12. Rafael Palmeiro -- Once my favorite player, his failed test broke my heart. I don't know enough to change his ranking, though.
        13. Eddie Murray -- I think he had better years than he's sometimes given credit for.
        14. Albert Pujols -- Hard to rank someone who hasn't played even 10 years, but give him three terrible years and a retirement and he'll make my Hall of Fame, so he makes this list.
        15. Willie McCovey -- Amazing slugger at a position unfortunately filled with them.
        16. Jim Thome
        17. George Sisler -- Fun, complete player. Usually seems to be either overrated or underrated.
        18. Will Clark -- One of the most notable "what could have beens" in history.
        19. Todd Helton -- Close to the Hall of Fame for me. Even with Coors.
        20. Harmon Killebrew -- I find him overrated, but the sheer number of home runs are worth a place on the list.


        I'm almost certainly not done, so things like further tinkering, non-MLB players and snubbed Hall of Famers will be on later.
        Last edited by philkid3; 03-03-2008, 11:51 AM.
        Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Lou Gehrig
          2. Jimmy Foxx
          3. Jeff bagwell
          4. Frank Thomas
          5. Cap anson
          6. Hank Greenbreg
          7. Willie McCovey
          8. Mark McGwire
          9. Johnny Mize
          10. George Sisler
          11. Dan Brouthers
          12. Dick Allen
          13. Harmon Killebrew
          14. Eddie Murray
          15. Orlando Cepada
          16. Rafael Palmeiro
          17. Fred McGriff
          18 Albert Pujols
          19. Keith Hernandez
          20. Roger Conner

          I'll Add Comments and other analysis later.
          Here's to baseball... The best sport made.

          "There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball. Unfortunately, neither of them works." ― Charlie Lau

          Comment


          • #6
            Here I was thinking Bagwell is underrated, but it looks like he'll rank pretty damn high on our list.
            Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by philkid3 View Post
              1. Lou Gehrig -- Easy number one.
              2. Jeff Bagwell -- Only recently started putting him this high. Amazingly underrated complete player.
              3. Jimmie Foxx -- Usually my No. 2 in the past.
              4. Frank Thomas -- Such an amazing hitter in his prime.
              5. Cap Anson -- Tend to agree; best player of the 1800s.
              6. Dan Brouthers -- Best hitter before Cobb for me.
              7. Johnny Mize -- Seems so very underrated.
              8. Roger Connor
              9. Hank Greenberg
              10. Mark McGwire -- Depressing to think his awesome show was disingenuine.
              11. Dick Allen -- Should have been in the Hall of Fame a long time ago.
              12. Rafael Palmeiro -- Once my favorite player, his failed test broke my heart. I don't know enough to change his ranking, though.
              13. Eddie Murray -- I think he had better years than he's sometimes given credit for.
              14. Albert Pujols -- Hard to rank someone who hasn't played even 10 years, but give him three terrible years and a retirement and he'll make my Hall of Fame, so he makes this list.
              15. Jim Thome
              16. George Sisler -- Fun, complete player. Usually seems to be either overrated or underrated.
              17. Willie McCovey -- Amazing slugger at a position unfortunately filled with them.
              18. Will Clark -- One of the most notable "what could have beens" in history.
              19. Todd Helton -- Close to the Hall of Fame for me. Even with Coors.
              20. Keith Hernandez -- Maybe the greatest fielder at first in history.


              I'm almost certainly not done, so things like further tinkering, non-MLB players and snubbed Hall of Famers will be on later.
              Nice looking list, and well thought out with a single GLARING exception. McCovey that low....consider his context. No other slugger endured their prime in the pitcher's era to the extent McCovey did, and played most of it in a pitcher's park to boot. Check his normalized stats and compare again with some of the other greats.

              Still, an excellent effort.

              Comment


              • #8
                First, I stand corrected. McCovey's park factors while in SF were actually slightly favorable.

                Second, in my own lists, I have both Dick Allen and Harmon Killebrew listed in the utility slot, as I'm uncomfortable tying them to a single position. Along with Pete Rose, they are the best of that lot. If I were to include them here, as I guess I should, Killer gets number 12, and Allen # 15. Mark, if you like, I can adjust, or you can.

                Comment


                • #9
                  --For the purposes of this exercise players need to be slotted into one position. For Dick Allen and Harmon Killebrew firstbase is there primary position. I think anybody's top 20 would be flawed without them, but that is only my opinion and not a requirement. Although it is possible that both could rank higher at third. If they make the list here they won't be eligible at 3B though (ditto for Perez).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    this is very difficult to do without some guidelines. For players who played mroe than one potision, like Thomas, Killebrew, and Allen, do we rank them for what they did ONLY at first, or for their career as a whole? For guys who were heavily suspected of steroids, like Mcgwire, Palmeiro, Bagwell, and Thome, do we penalize them for that? Or are these issues left up to the individual? First base is interesting, because after Gehrig and Foxx you can pretty much mix up the next 10 guys any way and justify it. You wouldnt think first basemen would have longevity issues, but seems to me that the best hitters of these guys( Foxx, Greenberg, Mize, Allen, Mcgwire, even Gehrig to an extent )didnt have long careers, and the guys who did have long careers (Murray, Killebrew, Mccovey, Palmeiro) were a notch below. Sisler and Bagwell are by far the best all around players of the bunch, and both had pretty long careers, so Id probably put them both in the top 5. Why is Sisler so low on people's lists? A great peak, a long career, and maybe the best running and fielding first baseman ever. seems to me he was sort of the Jeff Bagwell of his time. You can say hes not a 'slugger', but he did finish in the top 5 in slugging percentage 6 consecutive years. Bagwell has 6 seasons in the top 10, 2 in the top 5.
                    Last edited by willshad; 03-03-2008, 11:13 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by willshad View Post
                      ... Sisler and Bagwell are by far the best all around players of the bunch, and both had pretty long careers, so Id probably put them both in the top 5. Why is Sisler so low on people's lists? A great peak, a long career, and maybe the best running and fielding first baseman ever.
                      Sisler had some of the most staggering home/road breakdowns in history in his best seasons, along with his teammate Ken Williams. Sportsman's Park was a paradise for LH hitters until the screen was erected in RF in '29...after that, it was merely favorable for them. The height of the fairly close RF fence was raised by over 20 feet by the screen. There is a story about Foxx bouncing a number of balls off that screen during his 58 HR season, balls that would have been HRs in '27 and allowed the Beast to break Ruth's record.
                      I'm not saying that Sisler and Williams were bad ballplayers, you just have to take their circumstances into account. Sisler was an all-around ballplayer and could really handle his position, but a lot of his power is illusory.
                      Hornsby also had some crazy splits in his best years, and this may have been due to the fact that he was excellent at hitting with power the other way. To be fair, Rogers' splits for his career are quite even, and he put up huge numbers in a very tough Braves park in his one year there.
                      "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                        3) Cap Anson: best player of the 19th century

                        11) Dan Brouthers: Best bat of the 19th century?
                        It's great to see you giving old timers their kudos with Anson at number three, Mark, but there's no reason Brouthers should be this much lower than Anson. If you're counting Anson's National Association years as ML seasons, you shouldn't. The parity and competitive balance was completely laughable. I have no doubt I could, today, play in that league, and the highest organized baseball I ever played was college ball up till 6 years ago.

                        In the years they competed against each other, 1879-1896:

                        Anson
                        Code:
                        Yrs   G    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB   SO    BA   OBP   SLG   SB OPS+
                        17  1954  7693 1455 2518 444 112  94 1640  902  268  .327  .400  .451  247 139
                        Brouthers
                        Code:
                        Yrs   G    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB   SO    BA   OBP   SLG   SB  OPS+ 
                        19  1673  6711 1523 2296 460 205 106 1296  840  238  .342  .423  .519  256  170
                        Yes, Anson was older, but not that much older. They were both first baseman, and the difference between them in fielding was not enormous. If Anson were Keith Hernandez with the glove, I could see calling him the better player.

                        Brouthers was so far and away the best hitter of the 19th century...it's almost like Ruth and his contemporaries....

                        The more I look at it, the more I believe Dan Brouthers was the greatest player of the century.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My Top 20 1B, for all around, both offense/defense.

                          1. Lou Gehrig - 1925-39 - Rock of Gibralter, does he need explanation?

                          2. George Sisler - 1915-30 - '20-22 - was thought the best PLAYER in BB by some very credible observers. Best fielding 1B in ML, won 4 SB titles, hit over .400 2 of 3 yrs.

                          3. Jimmie Foxx - 1926-42, '44-45 - Gehrig light. Famed slugger in hitting era. Started as catcher. From '32-39, he terrorized league pitchers.

                          4. Jeff Bagwell - 1991-present - heavy bat, good glove. 1MVP, I GG, 4 All-Stars. Led L. in R 3 times, and once each in doubles, RBIs, BB, onbase, slg. He also collected 35 HRs 6 times, 100 RBIs 8 times, 100 BBs 7 times. He also came in the Top 10 in BA 3 times, onbase 8 times, Slg. 6 times, R 8 times, HRs 7 times, Walks 12 times, OPS+ 8 times, EBH 6 times. A slugger with a good glove.

                          5. Hank Greenberg - 1933-41, '45-47 - RBIs to go. Could stand next to Gehrig/Foxx and not disappear. NYC product had to leave town, due to Gehrig/Terry.

                          6. Adrian "Cap" Anson - 1871-97 - all time bat, only ave. glove. Great leadership qualities. Led league in Runs once, doubles twice, RBIs 8 times, Walks once, BA 4 times, on-base 4 times.

                          7. Bill Terry - 1924-36 - Superb fielder, best-fielding 1B in BB (Sizz was done), hit over 1.26 of L. aver. 2 yrs. running. Famed for hitting .400

                          8. Frank Thomas - 1990-present - Amazing peak, '91-97. Out of the '30's? in our modern day.

                          9. Harmon Killebrew - 1954-75; Heavy bomber, good glove. Covered 1B 969 g, 3B 791 g, OF 470 g. 13 All-Star games, 1 MVP, 1 crown for Slg/onbase/EBH, 6 HR titles, 4 Walk titles, 3 RBI/intentional walk titles, struck out lots and led once in GIDPs, but compensated for that with such good power. Not my type but still extremely valuable player.

                          10. Johnny Mize - 1936-42, '46-53 - Slugged great, great BA, few SOs. Lost 3 yrs. to WWII. Peak '37-48.

                          11. Dick Allen - 1963-77 - Started as good 3Bman, injury forced him to 1B around age 27. Still his heavy bat earned him 3 slugging/EBH titles, 2 HR/onbase titles. Struck out too much, and only had 6 seasons over 130 games, so injuries limit his ranking here. He walked well and his power made him feared when he did play. Little hard to rank. 1B - 807 g, 3B - 652 g, OF - 256 g.

                          12. Willie McCovey - 1959-80 - Power hitter, plain & simple. 3 HR titles, 2 RBI titles, BB once, OBP once, 3 SLG. titles.

                          13. Dan Brouthers - 1879-96 - Led league in 29 traditional offensive stats. All time "Deadball Slugger". Sadly forgotten bat.

                          14. Ted Kluszewski - 1948-61 - Mize light, for a few yrs. Peak '53-56.

                          15. Frank Chance - 1898-1911 - rock solid early Cubbie - led once in R, OBP, twice in SB. Managed whole time.

                          16. Eddie Murray - 1977-97 - Longevity case, good bat over time. Was DH at end. 1984 was his best hitting yr.

                          17. Steve Garvey - 1970-87 - Very consistent hitter over long time, good fielder. Over 200 hits 6 times. 10 all star teams.

                          18. Cecil Fielder - 1985-98 - Hitter, despite weird Carew stance. 1990-93 peak.

                          19. Cecil Cooper - 1971-87 - hit well from '79-83. Good glove. 5 all star teams.

                          20. Keith Hernandez - 1974-90 - All time gourmet, deluxe glove, hot bat in '79, not bad in others too.
                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Honorable Mentions:

                          21. Tony Perez - 1964-86 - Could hit, nice peak. Playing on winning team helped his rep.

                          22. Don Mattingly - 1982-95 - Great glove, hit great too for a few yrs. Injured messed up career. Good leadership.

                          23. Will Clark - 1986-2000 - Slickest glove reminds us of Snow today. Good bat '87-91, then cooled, like Mattingly. Sweet, fluid stroke.

                          24. Jake Daubert - 1910-24 - won BA titiles in '13-14, 2 triples titles, 3 fielding ave. titles.

                          25. Lu Blue - 1921-32 - Superb fielder, walked well, career .287/.402/.401.

                          26. Charlie Grimm - 1916-36 - won 6 Fielding Ave. titles, 2 all star teams, strong leader.

                          27. Wes Parker - 1964-72 - slick glove like Mattingly, Terry, Will Clark, Snow. Hit well in 1970, 5 fielding percent titles. Super graceful.

                          28. Sadaharu Oh - 1959-80 - 868 Big Ones must count for something. AG2004 posted that he won the 1st 9 Japanese GGs, 1972-80. Japanese Gehrig.

                          Unranked Hall of Famers:
                          Jake Beckley
                          Jim Bottomley
                          Roger Connor
                          George Kelly
                          Last edited by Bill Burgess; 03-07-2008, 01:51 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1B Form Chart: Reference Resources:

                            Pre-1900: Joe Start, Roger Connor, Charles Comiskey, Wes Fisler, Dan Brouthers, Jake Beckley, Fred Tenney, Ed Konetchy, Jake Daubert, Adrian "Cap" Anson, Dave Orr, Henry Larkin, Cal McVey

                            Frank Chance, Stuffy McInnis, Jim Bottomley, Jack Fournier, Lu Blue, Hal Chase, George Sisler, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Hank Greenberg, Bill Terry, Johnny Mize, Ted Kluszewski, Gil Hodges, Vic Power, Orlando Cepeda, Willie McCovey, Harmon Killebrew, Wes Parker, Steve Garvey, Cecil Cooper, Cecil Fielder, Kent Hrbek, Tony Perez, Keith Hernandez, Eddie Murray, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Mark McGwire, Jeff Bagwell, Frank Thomas, Rafael Palmeiro, Carlos Delgado, Jason Giambi, JT Snow, Todd Helton, Darien Erstad, Albert Pujols;

                            Negro Leagues: Buck Leonard, Ben Taylor.
                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Bill James' Top 40 1Bmen: 1. Gehrig 2. Foxx 3. McGwire 4. Bagwell 5. Murray 6. Mize 7. Killebrew 8. Greenberg 9. McCovey 10. F.Thomas 11. Anson 12. Mattingly 13. Perez 14. W.Clark 15. D.Allen 16. Hernandez 17. Cepeda 18. Brouthers 19. Palmeiro 20. N.Cash 21. McGriff 22. R.Connor 23. M.Vernon 24. Sisler 25. Chance 26. B.Terry 27. B.Powell 28. C. Cooper 29. D.Camili 30. G.Hodges 31. Garvey 32. M.Grace 33. B.Watson 34. T.Kluszewski 35. J. Fournier 36. J. Bottomley 37. W.Joyner 38. H.Trosky 39 B.White 40. K.Hrbek 51. Mo Vaughn 55. Cecil Fielder 61. Jake Daubert 68. Stuffy McInnis 76. Hal Chase 77. Lu Blue 85. Charlie Grimm 95. Wes Parker
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            As an added reference resource, here are our two former 1Base comparison threads.

                            1st Round of Greatest Position Players - November 14, 2004 - December 10, 2004, by Leecemark

                            2nd Round of Greatest Position Players - October 13, 2005 - December 27, 2005, by 53820
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Top OPS+ seasons of some prominent 1Bmen. (Minimum 500 PA, except for pre-1900, due to fewer games/season.)

                            Lou Gehrig..........221, 208, 203, 195, 194, 190 Average: 202
                            Dan Brouthers.....206, 201, 199, 189, 187, 182 Average: 194
                            Jimmie Foxx........205, 200, 188, 186, 182, 182 Average: 191
                            Frank Thomas.....212, 181, 180, 178, 178, 177 Average: 184
                            Mark McGwire.....217, 203, 178, 175, 168, 164 Average: 184
                            Cap Anson..........200, 191, 180, 178, 176, 176 Average: 183 (fewer games due to era)
                            Roger Connor......201, 185, 184, 176, 171, 168 Average: 181
                            Willie McCovey....211, 182, 175, 165, 161, 160 Average: 176
                            Dick Allen...........200, 181, 174, 166, 165, 162 Average: 175
                            Jeff Bagwell........213, 179, 169, 168, 158, 152 Average: 173
                            Albert Pujols.......189, 180, 175, 167, 158, 155 Average: 170
                            Johnny Mize.......178, 176, 175, 172, 161, 160 Average: 170
                            Hank Greenberg..172, 170, 170, 169, 163, 156 Average: 166
                            Harmon Killebrew.179, 174, 161, 161, 158, 153 Average: 164
                            George Sisler......181, 170, 161, 157, 154, 140 Average: 161
                            Hank Kluszewski..166, 147, 145, 142, 132, 124 Average: 142
                            Gil Hodges..........143, 142, 141, 138, 128, 126 Average: 136
                            ------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Lou Gehrig - 154.0 - 2 SLG. titles - 9954 PA - 179 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 230. Ave. held up well, of course due to lack of decline phase, hence low PA. Only won 2 titles.
                            Jimmie Foxx - 143.7 - 5 SLG. titles - 9,599 PA - 163 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 214. Too few PA relative to Aaron/Mays[/COLOR]
                            ----------------------
                            ...............OPS+....EqA.....BRAR....BRAR/650 PA
                            Gehrig.........179.....345......1219........82.02
                            Brouthers.....170....324.......780........66.21
                            Pujols..........171....343.......515........82.41
                            Foxx...........163.....327......1012........68.02
                            F.Thomas....160.....342......1146.......81.31
                            D.Allen........156.....325.......801........71.19
                            McCovey.....148.....318.......960........64.42
                            -------------------------------------------------
                            Relative ISO:

                            Lou Gehrig: 230
                            Mark McGwire: 223
                            Hank Greenberg: 220
                            Jimmy Foxx: 214
                            Johnny Mize 209
                            Dick Allen: 198
                            Willie McCovey: 192
                            Harmon Killebrew: 190
                            Albert Pujols: 182 (6 seasons)
                            Frank Howard 175
                            Frank Thomas: 169
                            Rafael Palmeiro: 149
                            Eddie Murray: 138
                            ---------------------------------------------------
                            Relative ISO: Some Pre-1920 hitters:

                            Dan Brouthers 178
                            Roger Connor 172
                            Cap Anson 121

                            All-Time list for OPS+ (baseball-Reference)
                            http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...s_career.shtml

                            Relative Stats Chart:
                            http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.p...&postcount=161
                            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Courtesy of David Kent. Here is a list of the top 100 sluggers of all time based on relative isolated power (min 5000 AB). The values are league adjusted but not park adjusted. (NB: If someone has park factor values for average and slugging, I would love to see it.)


                            Code:
                            :
                            Player                AB    Slg    Avg    ISO  Rel ISO
                            -------------------------------------------------------
                            Lou Gehrig           8001  0.632  0.340  0.292  227.6
                            Hank Greenberg       5193  0.605  0.313  0.292  223.1
                            Mark McGwire         6187  0.588  0.263  0.325  217.1
                            Jimmie Foxx          8134  0.609  0.325  0.284  215.6
                            Johnny Mize          6443  0.562  0.312  0.250  209.8
                            Dick Allen           6332  0.534  0.292  0.242  199.2
                            Willie McCovey       8197  0.515  0.270  0.245  192.3
                            Harmon Killebrew     8147  0.509  0.256  0.252  190.8
                            Dan Brouthers        6711  0.519  0.342  0.177  181.2
                            Frank Howard         6488  0.499  0.273  0.225  175.3
                            Roger Connor         7794  0.486  0.317  0.169  171.6
                            Frank Thomas         6851  0.567  0.308  0.259  168.3
                            Norm Cash            6705  0.488  0.271  0.217  165.2
                            Cecil Fielder        5157  0.482  0.255  0.227  157.6
                            Jeff Bagwell         7697  0.542  0.297  0.245  157.6
                            Jim Bottomley        7471  0.500  0.310  0.191  156.2
                            Boog Powell          6681  0.462  0.266  0.196  153.9

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1. Stan Musial - played 1B more than any other "true" position, over 1000 games!
                              2. Lou Gehrig - best "prue" 1B
                              3. Jimmie Foxx
                              4. Dan Brouthers - better peak than Anson
                              5. Cap Anson

                              6. Pete Rose - played 1B more than any other "true" position, despite playing only 26% of his games there
                              7. Johnny Mize - why did we have to wait for the VC to vote him into the Hall?
                              8. Frank Thomas - his best years were at 1B
                              9. Hank Greenberg
                              10. Roger Connor

                              11. Harmon Killebrew
                              12. Rod Carew
                              13. Albert Pujols - #13...for now...
                              14. George Sisler
                              15. Mark McGwire
                              16. Jeff Bagwell
                              17. Rafael Palmeiro
                              18. Harry Stovey - while roughly 37% of his games were at 1B, his best season was at first, arguably his 2nd best season was also at first, I'd say 3 of his Top 5 seasons were at 1B, and 3-1/2 of his Top 6 seasons were at 1B
                              19. Bill Terry
                              20. Todd Helton

                              21. Eddie Murray
                              22. Dick Allen
                              23. Ernie Banks
                              24. Orlando Cepeda
                              25. Jim Thome
                              26. Willie McCovey - a little better than Stargell, but didn't play the OF so much, I feel he's generally overrated at BBF
                              27. Willie Stargell
                              28. Jim Bottomly
                              29. Don Mattingly
                              30. Jason Giambi

                              Somewhere in the 30s
                              Jake Beckley

                              Somewhere in the 40s
                              Tony Perez

                              "Somewhere out there, beneath the pale moonlight"
                              George Kelly
                              Frank Chance
                              Last edited by dgarza; 03-04-2008, 09:53 AM.

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