Greatest Players by Position

[leecemark]

--This thread will record the voting totals of the current series of threads on the top 20 players at each position. The vote is intended to include players from all of major league history. Addendums to the ballots for the probable slotting of Negro League players is encouraged. Comments supporting the choices of participants are strongly encouraged.
--Through the first two ballots I have been very encouraged by the willingnes of voters to consider and pt to fairly slot 19th century players. They have often been overlooked in past polls here at BBF (and even moreso elesewhere).
--If you have participated in the first polls - thank you and please keep contributing. If you haven't please consider joining in the rest. The more the merrier. I'd like these to reflect the consensus opinion of our membership to the greatest extent possible.
--This thread is closed for comments until all the positions are complete. Please direct your comments until then to the position thread to which they apply. Thanks .

[leecemark]

Catchers

--Thank you to the 12 members who shared their opinions here. Johnny Bench received 9 of 12 first place votes, Yogi Berra 2 and Buck Ewing 1. Vote totals as follows;

1) Johnny Bench 233
2) Yogi Berra 215
3) Mike Piazza 211
4) Mickey Cochrane 192
5t) Gary Carter 159
5t) Roy Campanella 159
7) Carlton Fisk 158
8) Bill Dickey 152
9) Ivan Rodriguez 147
10) Gabby Hartnett 141
11) Buck Ewing 128
12) Ted Simmons 93
13) Joe Torre 68
14) Bill Freehan 55
15) Charlie Bennett 45
16) Thurman Munson 39
17) Ernie Lombardi 38
18) Roger Bresnanhan 37
19) King Kelly 29
20) Lance Parrish 27
--Honorable mentions are listed first by the number of ballots they appeared on with actual point totals as a tie breaker.
21) Elston Howard 6/23
22) Deacon White 4/15
23) Jorge Posada 3/18
24) Ray Schalk 3/17
25) Gene Tenace 3/14
26) Wally Schang 3/12
27) Johnny Kling 3/8


--Amoung Negro Leaguers a majority view Josh Gibson as a probable top 5 and a majority also view Louis Santop and Biz Mackey as probably top 20.

--Two Hall of Fame catchers did not make our top 20 - Ray Schalk and Rick Ferrell (who was only mentioned on one ballot. . Five non-Hall of Famers (#12-16 Simmons, Torre, Freehan, Bennett and Munson ranked ahead of 5 Hall of Famers -#16-18 Lombardi, Bresnahan and Kelly in addition to Schalk and Ferrell.

--That is everyone who received more than 1 vote. The players receiving one vote were Cal McVey, Brian Downing, Del Crandell, Rick Ferrell, Bob Boone, Walker Cooper, Darrell Porter and Chief Myers. They are listed in the order that reflects the enthusiasm of their lone supporter.

[leecemark]

Firstbasemen

--Thank you to the 12 members who cast ballots. Gehrig would have been unanimous except for Musial appearing on one ballot as a a firstbaseman. I'd have Musial #1 at first myself, but didn't put him on this ballot since he is generally (although perhap incorrectly) thought of as a leftfielder. Only a third of the respondents shared an opinion on Negro/other league players.
--The positives for me so far in these polls is the willingness of participants to try and five 19th century players their due. In fact the most interesting item from this poll was a dead heat for third between two players whose careers started over 100 years apart.


1) Lou Gehrig 219
2) Jmmie Foxx 205
3t) Cap Anson 170
3t) Jeff Bagwell 170
5) Frank Thomas 169
6) Hank Greenberg 146
7) Dan Brouthers 142
8) Johnny Mize 136
9) Willie McCovey 121
10) Eddie Murray 105
11) George Sisler 93
12t) Roger Conner 72
12t) Harmon Killebrew 72
14) Mark McGwire 71
15) Dick Allen 61
16) Jim Thome 44
17) Albert Pujols 43 (very impressive considering he only has 7 years in)
18) Fred McGriff 41
19) Rapheal Palmerio 33
20) Will Clark 32
--the honorable mentioned are ordered based on the number of ballots they appeared on with actual point totals as a tie breaker
21) Orlando Cepeda 5/25
22) Todd Helton 5/19
23) Keith Hernandez 5/14
24) Bill Terry 4/30
25) Tony Perez 3/12
26) Carlos Delgado 2/8

--The following players received a single vote; Stan Musial (look for him in LF), Rod Carew (look for him at 2b), Ted Kluzewski, Frank Chance, Pete Rose (look for him at ???), Steve Garvey, Harry Stovey (look for him in LF), Cecil Fielder, Cecil Cooper and Gil Hodges. Most surprising ommission for me was Don Mattingly. He just missed my ballot and I figured somebody would have him in their top 20.

--Hall of Famers George Kelly and Jim Bottomley received no votes.

--Amoung those who shared an opinion a majority thought Buck Leonard and Sadaharu Oh were probably deserving of top 10 mention and Mule Suttles was deserving of top 20 mention

[leecemark]

--We didn't get enough participants in the secondbase survey to form a viable consensus. Therefore this project will die a premature death. Thank you to those who participated. The wake will be this Saturday - BYOB.

[Blackout]

too big of a list man

keep it smaller


catcher
1-josh gibson
2-yogi berra
3-johnny bench
4-bill dickey
5-roy campanella

1st base
1-gehrig
2-foxx
3-thomas
4-mccovey
5-bagwell


2nd
1-hornsby
2-lajoie
3-collins
4-robinson
5-morgan

ss-
1-lloyd
2-wagner
3-rodriguez
4-vaughan
5-ripken (soon to be Hanley Ramirez's spot)

3rd base
1-rodriguez (he's had the 2 best single seasons by a 3rd baseman)
2-boggs
3-schmidt
4-mathews
5-jones


lf
1-williams
2-jackson
3-musial
4-bonds*
5-simmons

cf
1-cobb
2-mantle
3-dimaggio
4-mays
5-speaker

rf
1-ruth
2-aaron
3-gwynn
4-ott
5-wahoo sam

DH
1-martinez
2-ortiz
3-hafner

so many great players were something else before DHing

[leecemark]

--We've done the top guys so many times its gotten pretty stale. I was hoping for something more here, but it wasn't meant to be.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I'll stay Mark, I've been busy, I'd really like to do this. Also, did you get my catcher ballot? I can go top ten major league catchers, Gibson would be number one if I included negro leaguers, but I remember you wanted 20 guys. I couldn't think of 20 off the top of my head and really didn't have the time to research it. The debate of whose top 5-10 may have gotten stale, but after ten it gets very interesting. Especially at a position like second base or short stop.