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Jackie Robinson steals home 1955

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
    You guys are a tough house to play. But I am tenacious too. I just blew up that shot. Can you now see that that IS Jackie's foot? NOW!
    [ATTACH]37702[/ATTACH]
    I hear ya Bill and if you look back on my posts I never said it wasn't Jackie's foot. What I said was that although from this side it may appear that Yogi's glove is not in contact with his foot which could have made contact just before his foot hit the plate....... we have no way of knowing positively that the other side of Yogi's mitt did or did not make contact. I can say that I have never seen a shot of this play from the other side and even at that it may not be evident.

    I'll repeat all of us have seen a number of plays that when viewed from another angle have changed our opinion, thats in todays game with so many different shots taken.

    What is taking place on the other side of Yogi's mitt, has anyone ever seen that side, willing to look if anyone has a shot from the other side.

    Other then Yogi and Jackie the only other in position to see the play was Dodger batter Frank Kellert and he thought Jackie was out. Again I don't use Kellert to reinforce my point, he could be wrong.

    You know how it's going to end Bill, the way it always does for the last 50 years. I could understand one on either side saying what they "think" but how can either side be positive with this picture from this angle. I'm not committed either way not with absolute conviction it appears that way to you and some others and I can understand that, still would love to see the play from the other side.

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  • Bill Burgess
    replied
    You guys are a tough house to play. But I am tenacious too. I just blew up that shot. Can you now see that that IS Jackie's foot? NOW!
    Image1.jpg
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 03-16-2008, 07:11 AM.

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
    While I agree there is room for disagreement, there is something at the top, right of the plate, and it looks an awful lot like Jackie's shoe! And Yogi's glove is not near it. Just an opinion, though.

    I see what your saying Bill but even if it is Jackies foot and it's positivley " down" (post #7) making contact with the plate not over the plate we still can't say with certainty that the other side of Yogi's glove is or is not making contact with the shoe.

    Yogi's glove does "appear" to be away Jackie's foot but there is no way to say for sure that he is not in contact with the foot. We're talking about inches here, no depth perception to judge by from the angle the pic was taken from, this side of Yogi's glove.

    How many times have we all seen a call made in game or one that appears one way to us the viewers and then from another angle it looks contrary.
    Again and I say he could be wrong the Dodger batter Frank kellert is looking right down on the play and he thought Jackie was out, he's a Dodger player.

    This one will never end because no matter where the glove or the shoe appears to be from that one angle the angle is still not good enough to say positively. Good thing the Yanks did win that game that makes it's importance far less than it would have been.

    I can't say that he was safe or out because I can't go either way with certainty. I might add the even though we all know the Ump's call is the only one that matters thats not the theme on this thread it's what the posters believe. Also he may have been right with his call by pure luck because it plain to see there is no way the ump can see the play.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 03-16-2008, 05:59 AM.

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by Bazookadale View Post
    The above shot is the only angle I had ever seen it from until last summer, when during an interview with Rachel Robinson they showed a shot from third base. In that photo much more of the plate seemed open than I ever saw before.Now it was still a split second before the tag was made , so I still can't say for sure, but I grew up believing he was out, now I believe he was safe!

    I don't think I've ever seen a shot from third base, not in all these years. Wouldn't the photographer have to be down the third baseline while the game was going on. I don't doubt your word but again wondering why this shot is never shown, it's been fifty years.

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  • Bazookadale
    replied
    The above shot is the only angle I had ever seen it from until last summer, when during an interview with Rachel Robinson they showed a shot from third base. In that photo much more of the plate seemed open than I ever saw before.Now it was still a split second before the tag was made , so I still can't say for sure, but I grew up believing he was out, now I believe he was safe!

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  • Bill Burgess
    replied
    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    I don't think Robinson'd shoe is readily apparent in either picture. I think I'm looking at Berra's glove.
    Alright. I won't brow-beat you. Your perception is as good as mine.

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  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
    What you are assuming is Berra's glove, is, in part, Jackie's shoe! Jackie's shoe is clearly on the top, right corner of the plate.

    That's NOT Yogi's glove. It's a shoe.
    I don't think Robinson'd shoe is readily apparent in either picture. I think I'm looking at Berra's glove.

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  • Bill Burgess
    replied
    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    It appears to me that Berra's glove obscures the view of Robinson's foot in both pictures, which makes it impossible to tell if Robinson was safe or not. It also appears that the umpire was caught flatfooted and was in a bad position to make the call.
    What you are assuming is Berra's glove, is, in part, Jackie's shoe! Jackie's shoe is clearly on the top, right corner of the plate.

    That's NOT Yogi's glove. It's a shoe.

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  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    It appears to me that Berra's glove obscures the view of Robinson's foot in both pictures, which makes it impossible to tell if Robinson was safe or not. It also appears that the umpire was caught flatfooted and was in a bad position to make the call.

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  • Bill Burgess
    replied
    Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Agree in part Bill it may look that way but it's not positive, you can't really be sure where the foot is and did Yogi then come down with the glove.
    While I agree there is room for disagreement, there is something at the top, right of the plate, and it looks an awful lot like Jackie's shoe! And Yogi's glove is not near it. Just an opinion, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
    Here are 2 shots of that play. One can judge for themselves. For me, it appears that Jackie's foot is already on the plate and Yogi has yet to apply the tag. But that's just my interpretation.
    [ATTACH]37658[/ATTACH]
    [ATTACH]37659[/ATTACH]
    Agree in part Bill it may look that way but it's not positive, you can't really be sure where the foot is and did Yogi then come down with the glove. That does appear to be Jackie's foot on the plate but how can we say for sure the part of Yogi's glove that we can't see didn't make the tag first. Also no way to tell if Jackie's foot is sliding on the plate or over the plate. His opinion said Jackie was safe but look where the ump is, bad position, he can't see the play. Not to fault the ump he had no time to get in position. The guy with the best view is the batter Frank Kellert and he thought Jackie was out and again I say he could be wrong.


    I recall a play in one WS with the Cards, don't recall the runner. He was called out at home and a big debate broke out. The replays appeared the ump blew the call, the runner came in head first and a number of replays appeared to show his hand touching home just before the tag. The very last replay from ground level showed the ump was correct, he was out. His hand was "over" the plate only by inches and only one ground level replay could show that.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 03-14-2008, 06:04 PM.

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    With respect to all opinions, I see no way anyone could say that Jackie was safe or out. My only answer I don't know. Frank Kellert the Dodger at bat and looking down on the plate said he thought Robbie was out and he was Dodger at that time...but he could be wrong. I have never seen a photo with the proper angle depth included where you could make a positive call. If there was this would not be a point to debate.

    It's 52 years and still debated, what does that tell us. Also it would have really been a point of debate had the Yanks lost that particular game.

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  • Bill Burgess
    replied
    Here are 2 shots of that play. One can judge for themselves. For me, it appears that Jackie's foot is already on the plate and Yogi has yet to apply the tag. But that's just my interpretation.
    Image47.jpg
    Oct. 9, 1926, WS.jpg

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  • George H Ruth
    replied
    I have to agree with you guys, it's very hard to tell, and personally I think only Robinson and Berra really know the answer. It's very unconclusive, but if I was the umpire and have to go on instint, after watching the play over and over, I'd have to call him safe as well.

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  • dabigyankeeman
    replied
    Obviously i am a Yankee fan, however i have seen photos and clips of this play over and over, and if i am the ump, i call him SAFE!

    unfortunetely.

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