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Best season - Shortstop edition

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  • Best season - Shortstop edition

    Which season is the best by a shortstop?

    Honus Wagner 1908: .354/.415/.542 39 doubles 19 triples 10 HR 109 RBI 100 runs 205 OPS+

    Arky Vaughan 1935: .385/.491/.607 34 doubles 10 triples 19 HR 99 RBI 108 runs 190 OPS+

    Alex Rodriguez 2003: .300/.392/.623 27 doubles 2 triples 57 HR 142 RBI 125 Runs 158 OPS+

    Alan Trammell 1987: .343/.402/.551 34 doubles 3 triples 28 HR 105 RBI 109 runs 155 OPS+

    Nomar Garciapara 2000: .372/.434/.599 51 doubles 3 triples 21 HR 96 RBI 104 runs 155 OPS+

    Barry Larkin 1996: .298/.410/.567 32 doubles 4 triples 33 HR 89 RBI 117 runs 154 OPS+

    Derek Jeter 1999: .349/.438/.552 37 doubles 9 triples 24 HR 102 RBI 134 runs 153 OPS+

    Hanley Ramirez 2007: .332/.386/.562 48 doubles 6 triples 29 HR 81 RBI 125 runs 145 OPS+

    Miguel Tejada 2004: .311/.360/.534 40 doubles 2 triples 34 HR 150 RBI 107 runs 131 OPS+

    Jimmy Rollins 2007: .296/.344/.531 38 doubles 20 triples 30 HR 94 RBI 139 runs 118 OPS+
    25
    Honus Wagner
    48.00%
    12
    Arky Vaughan
    20.00%
    5
    Alex Rodriguez
    24.00%
    6
    Alan Trammell
    0.00%
    0
    Nomar Garciapara
    4.00%
    1
    Barry LArkin
    0.00%
    0
    Derek Jeter
    4.00%
    1
    Hanley Ramirez
    0.00%
    0
    Miguel Tejada
    0.00%
    0
    Jimmy Rollins
    0.00%
    0
    Last edited by Blackout; 03-16-2008, 11:30 AM.

  • #2
    Jimmy Rollins '07, being discussed in a "greatest season ever" thread?

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll take Lou Boudreau in 1948. Great offensive season, and managed a team with multiple distractions to a World Series championship.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think the top 3 are the best

        but Hanley Ramirez is yet to reach his peak which makes me curious to see what he will do when he leaves Florida

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bob View Post
          Jimmy Rollins '07, being discussed in a "greatest season ever" thread?
          88 XBH, an MVP award, member of the 20-20-30-20 club


          the downside is the horrible OPS+ in comparison to the others.

          Comment


          • #6
            gotta go with Vaughan here, Hard to beat a .491 on base percentage..and its not like he was a singles hitter..over a .600 slugging average too.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by willshad View Post
              gotta go with Vaughan here, Hard to beat a .491 on base percentage..and its not like he was a singles hitter..over a .600 slugging average too.
              i can't decide whether Wagner or Vaughan was more valuable. I know Wagner did all of his during one of the worst offensive seasons in deadball history (and therefore Baseball history) but Vaughan's OBP was almost .500


              but Alex had 57 home runs, no other shortstop will probably ever hit 50. his 2002 season was just as good. same with his 96. and whats funny is that Alex's best 2 offensive seasons were probably 05 and 07
              Last edited by Blackout; 03-16-2008, 12:16 PM.

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              • #8
                I think A-Rod was better in '00, and possibly '96

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by blackout805 View Post
                  Alex Rodriguez 2003: .300/.392/.623 27 doubles 2 triples 57 HR 142 RBI 125 Runs 158 OPS+
                  That's actually his line from 2002, NOT 2003. And in any case, I might even take A-Rod's 2001 season anyways.

                  Better BA and OBP (identical Slg - .622/.623). Still hit 52 HR, and was running the bases more. And though it isn't by much, his 2001 OPS+ is slightly higher than in 2002.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1. Arky Vaughan 1935
                    2. Alex Rodriguez 1996
                    3. Hugh Jennings 1896
                    4. Alex Rodriguez 2002
                    5. Maury Wills 1962
                    6. Luke Appling 1936
                    7. Hugh Jennings 1895
                    8. Alex Rodriguez 2001
                    9. Nomar Garciaparra 2000
                    10. Miguel Tejada 2004

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Easy choice for me, Wagner's 1908 season is by far the greatest ever by a shortstop.
                      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'll go with Wagner.

                        His OPS+ of 205 outpaces Vaughan's 190 or ARod's 158. Wagner's WARP-3 of 16 tops Vaughan's 14.4 or ARod's 14.3 (in 2000, which I think was a stronger year than his 2003 with a WARP-3 of only 9.8).

                        If you include defense, Vaughan drops from the conversation. Wagner was a superior defender, one of the very best defensive shortstops of all time. Wagner's fielding RAR of 78 and RAA of 25 dwarfs Vaughan's RAR of 49 and RAA of 8. ARod had a RAR of 34 and an RAA of 12, clearly not in the Dutchman's class (Wagner also tops the group in RAR2 and RAA2 as well).

                        On the bases, ARod's 15 stolen bases didn't make the top ten (if you are using his 2003 season in the original post, his 17 didn't make the top ten either). Vaughan's 4 stolen bases also didn't make the top ten. Wagner's 53 stolen bases did lead the league, during a time when stolen bases were more valuable than in Vaughan or ARod's eras.

                        And yes, ARod's power is very impressive. His .606 slugging percentage was 40% better than league average - very impressive. But a tad less than Vaughan's .607 being 47% better than league average. Wagner's slugging percentage of .542 appears less impressive - but you must consider that it was a whopping 70% better than league average.

                        At bat, in the field, and on the bases, I'm very comfortable taking Wagner's 1908 season as the best by a shortstop - and absolutely if you use Win Shares (I figure most posters know that Wagner's WS total for 1908 is the highest ever, so I didn't include WS in this analysis).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          the thing is, Alex won a gold glove in 2002 and 2003 along with 50 home runs each year

                          the best defensive SS of 16 candidates and over 50 homers is just ridiculous.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by blackout805 View Post
                            the thing is, Alex won a gold glove in 2002 and 2003 along with 50 home runs each year

                            the best defensive SS of 16 candidates and over 50 homers is just ridiculous.
                            59 Win Shares in a single season is indeed just beyond ridiculous. In 2003, ARod put amassed 26 offensive win shares and 6 defensive win shares for a total of 32. Clearly supports his MVP award. In 1908, Wagner amassed 49 offensive win shares and 10 fielding win shares for a total of 59. You hit the nail on the head - just beyond ridiculous.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                              1. Arky Vaughan 1935
                              2. Alex Rodriguez 1996
                              3. Hugh Jennings 1896
                              4. Alex Rodriguez 2002
                              5. Maury Wills 1962
                              6. Luke Appling 1936
                              7. Hugh Jennings 1895
                              8. Alex Rodriguez 2001
                              9. Nomar Garciaparra 2000
                              10. Miguel Tejada 2004
                              Do you have some sort of bias against Honus Wagner?

                              Comment

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