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Where does Bret Boone stand now?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Freakshow
    Boone's most similar career batting lines from BB-Ref

    Travis Fryman (924)
    Ken Caminiti (903)
    Joe Gordon (899)
    Larry Parrish (894)
    Bobby Grich (893)
    Vern Stephens (886)
    Vinny Castilla (863)
    Doug DeCinces (854)
    Bobby Doerr (850) *
    Bobby Thomson (849)

    This is generally a list of players better than Boone, since his numbers benefit from playing in an era of high offense. In particular, Gordon, Grich and Doerr were far better players.
    I'd also take Stephens over Boone anyday.

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    • #17
      If you go solely by peak win shares, you can probably sneak him in the HOF, as his top three seasons is 16th among the 2B listed in the latest BJHA and his top five consecutive places him 21st on that list. I don't think that enough people would do that, though. After that, he gets nowhere: 39th among 2B in career win shares, 274th in MVP Award shares, 396th in black ink, 600th in gray ink, a gray ink plus black ink total below 50, which is where I usually place the cutoff for 2B, 377th in HOF standards, and only one of his ten most similar in the HOF, and Doerr would likely have moved out of that list but for WW II military service. Actually, he's better than I thought, but not good enough for the HOF, IMO.

      Jim Albright
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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      • #18
        I must admit Boone isn't really a player I've ever gotten much of a feel for. Always thought he was on the juice, but, anyway, he's probably in the late 30s or early 40s on my 2B list. Not top 10 matierial, a long way from the HOF but a very good player nonetheless.

        Not way he should make anyone's top 10 2B. There are at least 20 guys clearly better than Boone:

        1.Joe Morgan
        2.Eddie Collins
        3.Rogers Hornsby
        4.Jackie Robinson
        5.Nap Lajoie
        6.Charlie Gehringer
        7.Bobby Grich
        8.Craig Biggio
        9.Rod Carew
        10.Roberto Alomar
        No way Boone goes above any of those guys.
        11.Ryne Sandberg
        12.Lou Whitaker
        13.Willie Randolph
        14.Frankie Frisch
        15.Joe Gordon
        16.Nellie Fox
        No way Boone is above any of them either. Starting here I guess we have some guys who Boone could go over, with a big peak emphasis
        17.Jim Gilliam
        18.Jeff Kent
        19.Bill Mazeroski
        20.Davey Lopes
        21.Billy Herman
        22.Bingo DeMoss
        23.Johnny Evers
        24.Dick McAuliffe
        25.Bid McPhee
        Last edited by 538280; 03-02-2006, 01:03 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DoubleX
          I have long been extremely suspicious that Boone was juicing. The guy put up very consisent, and fairly unspectacular numbers for 8 years, with the occasional blip here and there. But then at age 32, after 8 years of consistently lower production, he begins a three year stretch that rivals the offensive production of most any 2Bman in history. So that's suspicious. And then when steroids testing is implemented, his game completely falls off the map. That definitely added to the suspicion. Also, Canseco mentions Boone in his book. Of course, considering the source, that might not mean too much. But I tend to think Canseco is scummy enough to actually be telling the truth on these things - he doesn't care if he's ratting people out.

          I have Boone outside of my top 30 2Bman, probably in the 30-35 range, and without a chance whatsoever of making the Hall.
          I agree with everything here 100%. My family hosted a couple AA players in the M's organization a few years back, and both said it was "clubhouse lure" that Boone was juicing, and Edgar Martinez (weird how he dropped 20lbs before the start of his last season) was highly suspected, as was Ryan Franklin (BUSTED!)
          WAR? Prove it!

          Trusted Traders: ttmman21, Dalkowski110, BoofBonser26, Kearns643, HudsonHarden, Extra Innings, MadHatter, Mike D., J.P., SShifflett

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          • #20
            Boone-Best M's 2baseman

            Originally posted by Zito75
            I agree with everything here 100%. My family hosted a couple AA players in the M's organization a few years back, and both said it was "clubhouse lure" that Boone was juicing, and Edgar Martinez (weird how he dropped 20lbs before the start of his last season) was highly suspected, as was Ryan Franklin (BUSTED!)
            As a M's fan, I loved Boone and do admit that during his contract drive year when he went and did a great Roges Hornsby imitation in 2001 I will be intellectually honest -since I slam Sammy/Big Mac/ et al- that yeah, I was fairly suspicious. But it was his contract drive year and after that he signed a hellacious money deal. Canseco mentions Boonie as one he was suspicious of. Again, another tragedy of MLB/Player Unions resistance to real testing is that when some one retires from that era he will forever be tainted regardless of culpability.
            In terms of all times greats, he probably was the best 2b that ever played for the M's. Which probably tells you all you need to know about the M's...:grouchy In addition to having some good pop he was a 4 time all star and 4 time Gold Glover.

            So, while he will make the Mariner HOF some day the only way he gets to the mac daddy MLB HOF is to visit on the family plan pass with his dad/brother. But I could be wrong and wait for possible enlightment....
            Johnny
            Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Zito75
              I agree with everything here 100%. My family hosted a couple AA players in the M's organization a few years back, and both said it was "clubhouse lure" that Boone was juicing, and Edgar Martinez (weird how he dropped 20lbs before the start of his last season) was highly suspected, as was Ryan Franklin (BUSTED!)
              Edgar huh? First I've heard, but I can't say I'm surprised. You could pretty much tell me any player from the past 15 years was on the juice and I wouldn't be surprised.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by DoubleX
                Edgar huh? First I've heard, but I can't say I'm surprised. You could pretty much tell me any player from the past 15 years was on the juice and I wouldn't be surprised.
                oh my gawd double x, not ichiro h h h
                Johnny
                Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by DoubleX
                  Edgar huh? First I've heard, but I can't say I'm surprised. You could pretty much tell me any player from the past 15 years was on the juice and I wouldn't be surprised.
                  I know for a fact that the following players were on the the juice:

                  Ichiro
                  David Eckstein
                  Juan Pierre
                  Scott Podsednick
                  Jose Reyes

                  Are you not surprised???

                  p.s. Please don't take this post seriousy.
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GiambiJuice
                    I know for a fact that the following players were on the the juice:

                    Scott Podsednick
                    He sure was hiding it well

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Edgartohof
                      He sure was hiding it well
                      Actually, now that I think about it, he could have been juicing in '04. I mean did you see the power he put up? And once testing came around, he lost it all?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Edgartohof
                        He sure was hiding it well
                        not only that, Podsednick got ripped off :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy
                        at a minimum, he needs to get his money back.
                        Johnny
                        Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Not worth the effort.
                          Last edited by csh19792001; 03-02-2006, 04:49 PM.

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                          • #28
                            He should be inducted into the "Frosted Lettuce" HOF

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by johnny
                              oh my gawd double x, not ichiro h h h
                              Wouldn't surprise me. Look at the players caught last year, we're not talking about homerun hitters for the most part. Matt Lawton. Alex Sanchez. These are small guys that rely on other things than homeruns.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by DoubleX
                                I have long been extremely suspicious that Boone was juicing. Also, Canseco mentions Boone in his book. Of course, considering the source, that might not mean too much. But I tend to think Canseco is scummy enough to actually be telling the truth on these things - he doesn't care if he's ratting people out.

                                We can call him a rat, a scum, lots of other names but I believe there is more truth in Conseco's book and some of the names he mentioned.

                                When put under oath all of a sudden McGwire did not care to "discuss the past". Raffy did a Bill Clinton finger point impersonation and "swear" he never did steroids, looks like Jose can at times tell the truth, he mentioned both of them. Can I postitive about Mac, in fact I can't, never proven. But..... after a dozen denials at the least in press meetings all of a sudden when appearing before that panel, he doesn't want to talk about the past.

                                Comment

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