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What player today compares to Willie Stargell?

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    Ubiquitous
    stats moderator

  • Ubiquitous
    replied
    If I simply look ratios of avg, OBP, SLg and more then 425 homers and bats from the left side. The closest person in history is Ken Griffey Jr. Who despite the closeness of numbers would never be confused for Willie. If we knoch the points down a bit then we find Willie McCovey, who also using similarity scores happens to me Stargells closest comp.

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  • Appling
    Registered User

  • Appling
    replied
    Originally posted by leecemark
    --I'm not sure there are really similar players to Stargell, either current or historical. Most lead footed sluggers don't have Willie's staying power. If Stargell could have run he might have been an inner circle type guy, instead of just a sure fire Hall of Famer. His lack of speed not only reduced his defense and baserunning value, it took a slice off his BA.
    Harmon Killebrew was something of a right-handed hitting Stargell on the diamond -- lots of power, slow foot speed, and never a trouble maker. But Killebrew didn't quite have the spark or leadership of a Stargell.

    "Respected by his teammates, inspiring them on to victory" -- Hard to find that kind of guy.
    [inserted by edit: Who is (or was) most similar to Stargell -- not as a player but as an inspiring team leader?]

    Some other thoughts: Lou Boudreau? Nellie Fox? (And I still think; maybe Kirby Puckett?)
    Appling
    Registered User
    Last edited by Appling; 03-06-2006, 09:25 AM.

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  • leecemark
    History Mod

  • leecemark
    replied
    --I didn't make the original comparison. I was just responding to your comment that you thought of Manny as the much better hitter. They
    are somewhat different types of hitters (and very different types of men), but the quality of their hitting is similar.
    --I'm not sure there are really similar players to Stargell, either current or historical. Most lead footed sluggers don't have Willie's staying power. If Stargell could have run he might have been an inner circle type guy, instead of just a sure fire Hall of Famer. His lack of speed not only reduced his defense and baserunning value, it took a slice off his BA.

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  • The Commissioner
    Administrator

  • The Commissioner
    replied
    I think that's a huge stretch to make the comparison based on top 5 finishes in any one specific category, especially OPS.

    I can however, see how their base-running and fielding, or lack thereof, could be used as a basis for comparison.

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  • leecemark
    History Mod

  • leecemark
    replied
    --Willie Stargell was in the top 5 in OPS 6 times, leading twice (interestinly enough his MVP season was NOT one of those 6 seasons). Manny Ramirez has been in the top 5 7 times, leading once. Their relationship to the league as hitters is fairly similar. Their lack of defensive and baserunning value is also similar, although for different reasons. Stargell was a smart and hard working player who just lacked the footspeed to be an asset in those departments. Manny has the physical tools, but his head often isn't in the game once he leaves the batters box.

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  • The Commissioner
    Administrator

  • The Commissioner
    replied
    Originally posted by 538280
    My comment about Manny was with then just as players, not their personaility. I think as players they are remarkably similar.
    That is an interesting connection. I actually think of Manny as being a much better hitter than Stargell. I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong here, but I was wondering what you were basing that comparison on?

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  • 538280
    Prophet of Rage

  • 538280
    replied
    Originally posted by Appling
    Ortiz seems to a good candidate -- certainly more so than Manny Ramirez (or the now-departed Johnny Damon?).
    My comment about Manny was with then just as players, not their personaility. I think as players they are remarkably similar.

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  • Appling
    Registered User

  • Appling
    replied
    I thought Cobb was a bit of a stretch but wondered if others thought he had "Stargell-like" Leadership qualities.

    Ortiz seems to a good candidate -- certainly more so than Manny Ramirez (or the now-departed Johnny Damon?).
    Appling
    Registered User
    Last edited by Appling; 03-04-2006, 10:19 AM.

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  • leecemark
    History Mod

  • leecemark
    replied
    --Chris, I think the point was Cobb had nothing in common with Willie Stargell, except both could hit the tar out of the ball. Stargell was beloved by his teammates and helped his team pull together. The 1979 Pirates are largely considered to have been greater than the sum of its parts and Stargell won the MVP that year largely (mostly actually) based on his being considered the leader of that bunch
    --Cobb was not beloved and it would be hard to argue that there was ever a season he inspired his teammates to greater heights (with anything other than his actual on field achievements). The same is also true of Williams and Bonds, so I don't know what your point was in bringing them up. All three were great players, amoung the elite handfull of all time, but all were/are less than great men. Stargell probably gets more credit than he should for his leadership (he didn't get the same cast very far the next year), but he was one of the great gentlemen of the game. Willie was liked and respected by virtually everyone.
    leecemark
    History Mod
    Last edited by leecemark; 03-04-2006, 09:29 AM.

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  • Ubiquitous
    stats moderator

  • Ubiquitous
    replied
    Originally posted by csh19792001
    Barry Bonds' "teams never won anything" either, and you probably think he's the greatest player ever. Neither did the Red Sox over Ted Williams' career, which traversed 4 decades.

    What's your point?

    Well whats your point?

    Appling said this, "morale-boosting way of inspiring his teammates on to victory" And then mentioned Cobb as a person who did this. Changing the subject to greatest ever and team record has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

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  • christian gentleman
    capital of baseball

  • christian gentleman
    replied
    we are family

    David Ortiz? Pops, Papi?

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  • csh19792001
    Team Veteran

  • csh19792001
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubiquitous
    Except Ty Cobb's teams never really won anything.
    Barry Bonds' "teams never won anything" either, and you probably think he's the greatest player ever. Neither did the Red Sox over Ted Williams' career, which traversed 4 decades.

    What's your point?

    Leave a comment:

  • Ubiquitous
    stats moderator

  • Ubiquitous
    replied
    Except Ty Cobb's teams never really won anything. I doubt Ty Cobb the brash 20 year old was inspiring his teammates to victory 1907 or so when they did win games.

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  • Appling
    Registered User

  • Appling
    replied
    Originally posted by NationalPastime1980
    I was wondering what baseball player playing today reminds you of Willie Stargell?'
    The part of Willie Stargell I consider most important and most unique is his unchallanged leadership of the team and his emotional, morale-boosting way of inspiring his teammates on to victory. (Especially in that 1979 season.)

    I can't really think of many other players with these qualities. Perhaps Ty Cobb? Kirk Gibson? Kirby Puckett? Roger Clemens?

    Leave a comment:

  • Wee Willie
    Registered User

  • Wee Willie
    replied
    David Ortiz seems similar to me. Roughly the same build, left-handed power hitter, good-natured. Stargell was "Pops", Ortiz is "Big Papi"

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