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  • Overrated and Underrated

    Simple in premise and yet complicated in practice: who do you think are some of the most overrated players in history and who are some of the most underrated?

    Obviously, this is meant to be an exercise in fairness, not an excuse to belittle those players we don't like by placing them in the overrated category.

    A few to consider
    -----------------

    Overrated:
    Pete Rose
    Nolan Ryan

    Underrated:
    Tim Raines
    Bruce Sutter
    Last edited by 1905 Giants; 03-25-2008, 05:55 PM. Reason: Didn't think Nolan Ryan was just tentatively.
    “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

    "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

  • #2
    Overrated:

    Joe Tinker
    Johnny Evers
    Frank Chance
    Lloyd Waner
    Mark McGwire
    Chick Hafey

    Underrated:

    Ron Santo
    Ted Simmons
    Dan Quisenberry

    Comment


    • #3
      I think Sutter might be put in the "overrated" category by most. No question that Rose and Ryan are overrated thanks to major career records.

      Sometimes, I don't think that Walter Johnson gets the recognition that he deserves in the mainstream baseball community (you know, outside of us geeks ), so he may be underrated.
      46 wins to match last year's total

      Comment


      • #4
        Overrated
        Pete Rose
        Nolan Ryan
        Jim Rice
        Bruce Sutter
        Jack Morris
        David Eckstein


        Underrated
        Albert Belle
        Ron Santo
        Tim Raines
        Bert Blylevin
        "In the end it all comes down to talent. You can talk all you want about intangibles, I just don't know what that means. Talent makes winners, not intangibles. Can nice guys win? Sure, nice guys can win - if they're nice guys with a lot of talent. Nice guys with a little talent finish fourth and nice guys with no talent finish last." --Sandy Koufax

        Comment


        • #5
          Considering only very good or great players:

          Overrated:
          Nolan Ryan (blinds everyone with great strikeout numbers)
          Cal Ripken Jr. (truly "compiled" 3,000 hits via a .276 BA)
          Carl Yastrzemski (had a couple great seasons, but was mostly just an above-average player)

          Underrated:
          Al Simmons (monster of a hitter in the 20's)
          Honus Wagner (playing in the dead ball era kept his superficial numbers down, but was truly one of the best ever)
          Don Sutton (I can't believe anyone thinks he doesn't belong in the HOF)
          Stan Musial (considered a legend, but still doesn't get as much credit as he deserves from modern fans)
          Fred McGriff (was just as good as Winfield or Murray, but will have trouble getting into the HOF)
          Ralph Kiner (phenominal power hitter who led NL in HR for seven straight years, but is somewhat unknown to modern fans)
          Barry Bonds before he used steroids (a controversial pick, but try to ignore everything you've found out about him in the last eight years, why did anyone think Griffey was better than Bonds in the 90s? Why didn't Bonds make the All-Century Team?)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Minstrel View Post
            Overrated
            David Eckstein


            Underrated

            Bert Blylevin
            Oh man, I agree with those two picks 100%!

            I guess I would add Bill Dahlen, Dick Allen and Joe Morgan (I doubt the average fan would put him that high because of his relatively low counting numbers) as underrated and Paul O'neil as overrated (he's the only one I can think of that hasn't already been mentioned).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Otis Nixon's Bodyguard View Post
              Cal Ripken Jr. (truly "compiled" 3,000 hits via a .276 BA)
              Cal Ripken Jr. is a fascinating case. I think he gets both casually overrated by fans who consider "The Streak" to be the greatest achievement in sports and casually underrated by fans who look at his raw, unadjusted traditional stats.

              By batting average, homers, RBIs...even on-base percentage and slugging percentage, he looks unexceptional. But when you look at his prime and adjust the numbers for the league he played in, the park he played in and the position he played and also factor in his considerable defensive value at shortstop, he was legitimately one of the greatest players ever.

              Memories of how amazing he was are damaged by his late career when he hung on as an average or below-average player. But based on his prime, I'd say that he was actually the third-greatest shortstop ever after Honus Wagner, and depending on whether you place Alex Rodriguez at shortstop. If you rank Rodriguez as a third baseman, I'd say Ripken Jr. was the second-greatest.

              In any case, this isn't a Ripken thread, but I thought Ripken was a good player to highlight because he's one of the few players that you could make an argument for as both overrated and underrated.
              "In the end it all comes down to talent. You can talk all you want about intangibles, I just don't know what that means. Talent makes winners, not intangibles. Can nice guys win? Sure, nice guys can win - if they're nice guys with a lot of talent. Nice guys with a little talent finish fourth and nice guys with no talent finish last." --Sandy Koufax

              Comment


              • #8
                Based purely on value as players:

                Overrated:

                Nolan Ryan
                Pete Rose
                Derek Jeter (note: this is not meant to belittle Jeter in any way. I feel that he is often unfairly depicted as the "face of baseball", leading many casual fans to believe that he is the best player in baseball. Which is not true.)
                Sandy Koufax
                David Eckstein
                Juan Pierre
                Joe Tinker
                Johnny Evers

                Underrated:

                Stan Musial
                Bert Blyleven
                Tim Raines
                Rickey Henderson
                Alex Rodriguez
                Barry Bonds
                Arky Vaughan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Overrated:

                  Juan Gonzalez
                  Pudge Rodriguez (offensively)
                  Curt Schilling
                  Trevor Hoffman
                  Jack Morris
                  Mike Schmidt
                  Joe Morgan
                  Andre Dawson
                  Jim Rice

                  Underrated:

                  Hank Greenberg
                  Joe Gordon
                  Will Clark
                  Brian Giles
                  Bobby Abreu
                  Jim Thome
                  Edgar Martinez
                  Arky Vaughan
                  My top 10 players:

                  1. Babe Ruth
                  2. Barry Bonds
                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
                  5. Willie Mays
                  6. Alex Rodriguez
                  7. Hank Aaron
                  8. Honus Wagner
                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                    Underrated:

                    Brian Giles
                    Bobby Abreu
                    Nice picks. They might be my selections for most underrated superstars of their generation.
                    "In the end it all comes down to talent. You can talk all you want about intangibles, I just don't know what that means. Talent makes winners, not intangibles. Can nice guys win? Sure, nice guys can win - if they're nice guys with a lot of talent. Nice guys with a little talent finish fourth and nice guys with no talent finish last." --Sandy Koufax

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Erik Bedard View Post
                      Based purely on value as players:

                      Rickey Henderson
                      How is Rickey Henderson underrated? It's almost universally accepted that he's going to gain election to Cooperstown the first time around with a huge chunk of the vote.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In my opinion
                        Overrated Dave Winfield
                        Underrated Andres Gallaraga
                        Winnie was the king of 3 run doubles when the game was already over
                        Gallaraga was clutch in the Perez mode and stung the ball

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Overrated-
                          Ortiz
                          Schilling
                          Yastrzemski
                          McGwire
                          Maggie Ordonez

                          Underrated-
                          Jeter
                          Fielder
                          Maris
                          Santo
                          Mo Rivera
                          MySpace Codes

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Under-
                            Harlond Clift
                            Stan Musial
                            Ron Cey
                            Jack Clark
                            Pedro Guerrero
                            Tris Speaker

                            Over-
                            Steve Garvey
                            Cecil Fielder
                            Steve Carlton
                            Nolan Ryan
                            Carl Yazstremski
                            George Sisler
                            "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hellborn View Post
                              Over-

                              Steve Carlton
                              Nolan Ryan
                              George Sisler
                              Why???? They are legends of the game.
                              MySpace Codes

                              Comment

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