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Best right-handed hitters of all time?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by stejay View Post
    1. Hank Aaron
    2. Rogers Hornsby
    3. Honus Wagner
    4. Willie Mays
    5. Jimmie Foxx
    6. Nap Lajoie
    7. Joe DiMaggio
    8. Frank Thomas
    9. Frank Robinson
    10. Alex Rodriguez
    11. Mike Piazza
    12. Manny Ramirez
    13. Ed Delahanty
    14. Mike Schmidt
    15. Cap Anson
    16. Johnny Bench
    17. Ernie Banks
    18. Hank Greenberg
    19. Robin Yount
    20. Dale Murphy
    Are you really saying that Dale Murphy was better as a hitter than Edgar Martinez?

    I mean, Dale was great from 1982-'87 with a 145 OPS+, a line of .289/.382/.531/.913 and 218 HR's (lead league twice)

    But that is still a step below Edgar.

    From 1995-2001 Edgar posted a 163 OPS+, a line of .329/.446/.574 with 196 HR's.

    So Dale had more HR power but Edgar more than made up for that in other areas such as doubles, walks, hits . . . not striking out 133 times/season . . .

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    • #77
      Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
      It's discouraging to see how people are massively underrating Joe Dimaggio. He's clearly one of the top few greatest right handed hitters in history.
      If it were not for WW II and if Joe D didn't have that eye infection at the end of the 1939 season that denied him a .400 season I think he would be much higher rated.
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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      • #78
        DiMaggio's career line at Fenway (through 1949):
        .338/.405/.612

        He hit 25 homers in 99 games there.

        In St. Louis (Sportman's Park) his career line was .401/.473/.768

        If DiMag had played in even a neutral park, as Brett showed, he would have ended up with and OPS+ somewhere in the 170's and well over 400 homeruns.

        Throw in the 3 years missed in his prime to WWII and I think he has a strong case as the greatest RH hitter ever.
        Last edited by csh19792001; 06-26-2010, 10:33 PM.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
          DiMaggio's career line at Fenway (through 1949):
          .338/.405/.612

          He hit 25 homers in 99 games there.

          In St. Louis (Sportman's Park) his career line was .401/.473/.768

          If DiMag had played in even a neutral park, as Brett showed, he would have ended up with and OPS+ somewhere in the 170's and well over 400 homeruns.

          Throw in the 3 years missed in his prime to WWII and I think he has a strong case as the greatest RH hitter ever.
          OPS+ does adjust for park factors. so his OPS+ wouldn't change.
          I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by dominik View Post
            OPS+ does adjust for park factors. so his OPS+ wouldn't change.
            The park factors OPS+ uses show YS to be either neutral or a slight pitcher's park during DiMaggio's career. That was not the case at all for a RH power hitter, though. Moving to a neurtal park that was not so skewed as YS was would have seen his raw stats increase, yet the park factors stay the same, resulting in a higher OPS+.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
              DiMaggio's career line at Fenway (through 1949):
              .338/.405/.612

              He hit 25 homers in 99 games there.
              In St. Louis (Sportman's Park) his career line was .401/.473/.768

              If DiMag had played in even a neutral park, as Brett showed, he would have ended up with and OPS+ somewhere in the 170's and well over 400 homeruns.

              Throw in the 3 years missed in his prime to WWII and I think he has a strong case as the greatest RH hitter ever.
              In his entire career Joe hit 29 homers at Fenway.
              Some where I have a list of the top 5 visiting hitters home runs at Fenway, as of 1996.
              In fact I've posted it a few times at BBF so maybe some one can find it.

              Going from memory, the numbers should be close.

              On top Ruth and Mantle with 37 or 38.
              I believe Killebrew with 30+
              Kaline 30 and Joe with 29.

              Ruth the only lefty and Mick batting both ways as we know, the other 3 right handed..
              Have not checked PA or AB but I'm sure both Killebrew and Kaline numbers are higher than Joe's at Fenway.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by mwiggins View Post
                The park factors OPS+ uses show YS to be either neutral or a slight pitcher's park during DiMaggio's career. That was not the case at all for a RH power hitter, though. Moving to a neurtal park that was not so skewed as YS was would have seen his raw stats increase, yet the park factors stay the same, resulting in a higher OPS+.
                you mean that it favors lefties?
                I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by dominik View Post
                  you mean that it favors lefties?
                  Yes. It's unfairly skewed.

                  OPS+ is unfairly biased against hitters like Joe D, who played in tremendously asymmetrical parks which favored one batter handedness over the other (in this case, Yankee Stadium was a tomb for right handed power hitters and above average for LH power hitters because of the short porch).

                  Ipso facto, I'd say someone like Gehrig should have a lower career OPS+ while, say, Ted Williams should have a higher career OPS+; Fenway has always been tremendous for RH power hitters and (because of relative dimensions) relatively poor for LH power hitters. Just going from memory, I think Williams hit 25 more home runs on the road in his career than he did at Fenway. (248 vs. 273?)

                  OPS+ does a poor job of indicating actual relative production because it doesn't account for the fact that old time parks were very, very heterogeneous in size and shape. OPS+ assumes all hitters are affected equally by their home park...clearly.... this is not true in real life.

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                  • #84
                    Harry Heilmann is in people's thoughts, too. Right?
                    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

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                    • #85
                      Cant forget about Joe Medwick and Chick Hafey had one of the best 5 year stretches in the MLB from 1927-1931 when he batted .338 and averaged 23 home runs as well as 100 rbi's in that span.

                      Hornsby though i think takes the cake as the best right handed hitter of all time. Joe Dimaggio is one of my favorite old school players to watch or listen to from some of those classic games.

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                      • #86
                        OPS+ does not make those kind of assumptions. OPS+ does assume that a player plays in every single game that the team does and does an equal amount of time per game but it does not assume players are affected equally by their park. OPS+ uses park factors and park factors simply measures the value of a run in one park compared to the rest of the league. You don't get extra runs put on the board because your right handed hitter plays in a tough park. This isn't bowling or golf, there is no handicap system.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
                          OPS+ does not make those kind of assumptions. OPS+ does assume that a player plays in every single game that the team does and does an equal amount of time per game but it does not assume players are affected equally by their park. OPS+ uses park factors and park factors simply measures the value of a run in one park compared to the rest of the league. You don't get extra runs put on the board because your right handed hitter plays in a tough park. This isn't bowling or golf, there is no handicap system.
                          Which is why it's not the best tool for evaluating how well an individual hitter performed, anymore than ERA is the best tool for evaluating how well an individual pitcher performed. Though it does give a pretty good representation of the value of that hitter's performance, if that's what you're after.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by mwiggins View Post
                            Which is why it's not the best tool for evaluating how well an individual hitter performed, anymore than ERA is the best tool for evaluating how well an individual pitcher performed. Though it does give a pretty good representation of the value of that hitter's performance, if that's what you're after.
                            Right. Which was my point. Thank you, mw.

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                            • #89
                              If your argument is that OPS+ doesn't accurately measure true ability then that is your argument. Your argument is not that OPS+ penalizes or overstates this players or that players production because of the park he plays in.

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                              • #90
                                Jim Rice??

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