Most Skilled Baseball Player Ever

[AstrosFan]

This is NOT the greatest player ever, or the most valuable, but the most skilled. I don't even want you to think of it in terms of tools, because then we'll end up limiting ourselves to the five tool players, and I think there are players who may have been the most skilled ever who were only great at three or four things, but were so good at those that they qualify as candidates. Also, I think tools cause a bias toward modern players, as they are more athletic. I want most skilled relative to their era. So league quality adjustments are not necessary in this. I suppose the best way to think about it would be: Who is the most talented player who had a long enough career that you could really evaluate that talent, either based on your own eye-witness accounts or what you've read about him? Vote for your top five, and we'll have a weighted ballot for the number one spot. I doubt I'll continue this beyond that, unless people are interested.

[leecemark]

1) Willie Mays
2) Honus Wagner
3) Alex Rodriguez
4) Ty Cobb
5) Mickey Mantle

[Victory Faust]

Well, the Babe had three amazing skills: pitching, hitting for power, hitting for average.

[Blackout]

hanley ramirez

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Once again Ruth's power will overshadow everything else he could do. I will not make a list but will mention that...

Ruth is the most skilled in history at power hitting, no matter where it was in the zone. Think Vlad's ability to stretch the zone but with much more distance on a regular basis.

Extremely skilled at taking what was given. That .342 average and never striking out 100 times in a season are a product of this. He knew the zone better than anyone, including Williams imo, because he knew the pitchers didn't want to give him squat, but he needed to know how far to extend the zone while still making solid contact. He understood his value and what was expected.

His skill of throwing for power and accuracy along with his decision making are always overlooked.

We could mention the skill of pitching.

We could also mention the skill of catching which he did at a stellar level up just until he was signed by Baltimore. There is no doubt in my mind he could have thrived as a big league catcher.

He was a skilled baserunner despite not having blazing speed, which says more about baserunning ability. Doesn't allow you to get away with as many poor decisions. He was instinctive and knew the game inside and out. Unfortunate that the few calculated risks that went bad get all the attention because the ones that achieved an extra base or caused an errant throw are plentiful.

I am not putting him number one because I am not making a list and it's hard to say what the criteria here is. How do we not use tools for a baseline? Is it, who was the most skilled at their best? For their careers? Who knows. I just know that Ruth's homers always overshadow everything else he could do.

[Minstrel]

Willie Mays seems like the definition of this exercise. All-around brilliance, even if he wasn't the most valuable (at the very least, Ruth was more valuable).

1. Willie Mays
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Honus Wagner
4. Barry Bonds
5. Ty Cobb

With Bonds, I am thinking of his athletic prime, not his offensive prime in the '00s. He was an amazing all-around player, patient, disciplined, able to hit line drives consistently and hit for power, he was fast, a great base-runner and a great defender in the outfield (Leyland, his manager in Pittsburgh, said only his weak arm prevented him from playing center field).

[Blackout]

Willie Mays seems like the definition of this exercise. All-around brilliance, even if he wasn't the most valuable (at the very least, Ruth was more valuable).

1. Willie Mays
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Honus Wagner
4. Barry Bonds
5. Ty Cobb

With Bonds, I am thinking of his athletic prime, not his offensive prime in the '00s. He was an amazing all-around player, patient, disciplined, able to hit line drives consistently and hit for power, he was fast, a great base-runner and a great defender in the outfield (Leyland, his manager in Pittsburgh, said only his weak arm prevented him from playing center field).

so why don't you rate Cobb ahead of Bonds? Cobb was a better hitter, base runner and played Center.

[Minstrel]

so why don't you rate Cobb ahead of Bonds? Cobb was a better hitter, base runner and played Center.

Since I feel Bonds had the ability to play center field and Cobb was not considered a standout center fielder (he was considered standout in right, but so was Bonds considered standout in left), I consider their defensive abilities a wash.

I don't agree that Cobb was the better hitter, unless you mean purely for batting average. In terms of offensive production at the plate (in the period I am talking about for Bonds), I consider them roughly equal.

Cobb as the better base-runner...that may have been true, but it's extremely hard to judge. They are way too far apart for anyone to directly compare by observation and there are no good "base-running" statistics. Cobb was considered about the best in his era, and Bonds was certainly one of the best in the 1990s.

Cobb and Bonds are pretty close. I wouldn't argue with someone who had Cobb ahead of Bonds.

[Wade8813]

We could also mention the skill of catching which he did at a stellar level up just until he was signed by Baltimore. There is no doubt in my mind he could have thrived as a big league catcher.

Really? Wow. Never heard anything about his being a catcher.

[leecemark]

--Thats because he only did it in high school (well reform school actually). He never caught professionally and - Sutlan's confidence he could not withstanding - there is no reason to believe he was capable of it. If nothing else, his being left handed would have been a serious obstacle.

[Murderers Row]

I think it is silly that Ruth is getting left of people's top 5.

1. Mantle
2. Mays
3. Wagner
4. Ruth
5. DiMaggio/Cobb

[Murderers Row]

I got a question. Who had more ability, A-Rod or Bonds? Not only is Bonds usually underrated because of the whole steroids debacle, but people tend to forget how talent the man really was. He runs circles around Griffey, talent and production wise.

As for A-Rod well, no need to explain. He played a very solid SS, was/is an awesome base stealer, and coming from someone who sess him everyday, he is easily one of the best base runners in the game. And oh yeah, he could hit too.

[Proctor, CF]

Chronologically: Wagner, Cobb, Lloyd, Ruth, Charleston, Foxx, DiMaggio, Mays, Mantle.

[whoisonit]

1- Babe Ruth
2- Oscar Charleston
3- Ty Cobb
4- Pete Rose
5- Josh Gibson

[lovethegame]

Babe Ruth
Great lefthanded pitcher, HOF quality
Greatest hitter of all time and a good fielder