Top Ten Relievers All Time

[parlo]

I need lots of help with this. I have a hard time comparing present day relievers/closers with those from earlier eras. It seems the role of a reliever changes about every 15-20 years. The saves stat seems more and more like a fluff stat. Heres what I have:
1-Rivera
2-Wilhelm
3-Fingers
4-Gossage
5-Ekersley
6-Sutter
7-Quisinberry
8-?
9-?
10-?


I look forward to your insight.

[jjpm74]

You can add T. Hoffman, L. Smith and S. Lyle to your list, but once you get past the players you already mentioned, you get a group of about 25 guys who are all pretty much on the same playing field and none of which are HOF worthy.

I'd move Quisenberry just below Gossage on your list. Otherwise, it's pretty much spot on.

[RuthMayBond]

As far as career, I've got
Rivera
Wilhelm
Gossage
LSmith
Quisenberry
JoFranco
Tekulve
Hoffman
Sutter
Fingers
with Wagner banging hard on that door

[parlo]

You can add T. Hoffman, L. Smith and S. Lyle to your list, but once you get past the players you already mentioned, you get a group of about 25 guys who are all pretty much on the same playing field and none of which are HOF worthy.

I'd move Quisenberry just below Gossage on your list. Otherwise, it's pretty much spot on.

Thanks!
Is Hoffman really that good???? He always seemed like a compiler to me. Why Lee Smith, but not Jeff Reardon??? I know Sparky had that CYA in 77, but I always kind of grouped him with Tug McGraw. I am not arguing with you, I am just not sure of the reasons you came to these conclusions.
I see your point about Quisenberry though.

[Blackout]

hoffman is NOT that good

alot of his saves are 1/3 innings

and he chokes

[dgarza]

1. Mariano Rivera
2. Dennis Eckersley
3. Hoyt Wilhelm
4. Trevor Hoffman
5. Lee Smith
6. Rollie Fingers
7. Billy Wagner
8. John Franco
9. Goose Gossage
10. Bruce Sutter
11. Dan Quisenberry

[parlo]

As far as career, I've got
Rivera
Wilhelm
Gossage
LSmith
Quisenberry
JoFranco
Tekulve
Hoffman
Sutter
Fingers
with Wagner banging hard on that door

Thanks for your input. I am not sold on Lee Smith and Trevor Hoffman. John Franco also. Kent Tekulve is an interesting choice. I am always intrigued by choices from an earlier era.
I will have to research him more.
Is there a reason you dont include Ekersley?

[parlo]

hoffman is NOT that good

alot of his saves are 1/3 innings

and he chokes

Thats what I have always thought. He has an Armando Benitez streak in him. He just seems like a compiler to me.

[parlo]

1. Mariano Rivera
2. Dennis Eckersley
3. Hoyt Wilhelm
4. Trevor Hoffman
5. Lee Smith
6. Rollie Fingers
7. Billy Wagner
8. John Franco
9. Goose Gossage
10. Bruce Sutter
11. Dan Quisenberry

I have a hard time believing that Hoffman, Smith, Wagner, and Franco are better than Gossage, Sutter, and Quisenberry. Prove me wrong!

[jjpm74]

Thanks!
Is Hoffman really that good???? He always seemed like a compiler to me. Why Lee Smith, but not Jeff Reardon??? I know Sparky had that CYA in 77, but I always kind of grouped him with Tug McGraw. I am not arguing with you, I am just not sure of the reasons you came to these conclusions.
I see your point about Quisenberry though.

I agree with you that there isn't a significant separation there. I was just throwing out 3 names there. Personally, I think the only oversight is Quisenberry to this point (I assume Rivera will get in when he's eligible). Lee Smith is another favorite of mine, but many see him as a compiler.

These guys are all on pretty equal ground, IMO:

Dan Plesac
Kent Tekulve
Mike Marshall
Rick Aguilera
Tug McGraw
Dave Righetti
Rob Nenn
Jeff Reardon
Sparky Lyle
Lindy McDaniel
Roy Face
Trevor Hoffman
John Franco
Billy Wagner
Randy Myers
Tome Henke
John Wetteland
Jesse Orosco
Doug Jones
Jeff Montgomery
Todd Worrell
Gene Garber
Ron Perranoski
Dave Smith
Mike Stanton
Todd Jones

[Bill Burgess]

Relievers Form Chart:

[B][COLOR=Red]Name, Era-------------------------Saves-----G. Fin.-------INN ---------ERA+[/COLOR][/B]
Firpo Marberry, 1923-1936,--------101--------271----------2,067--------134
Hoyt Wilhelm, 1952-1972,--------- 227--------651----------2,254.3------146
Roy Face, 1953-1969, -------------193--------574----------1,375.0------109
Ron Perranoski, 1961-1973,--------179--------458----------1,174--------123
Dick Radatz, 1962-1969------------122--------297------------693.7------122
John Hiller, 1965-1980,-----------125--------363----------1,040--------134
Sparky Lyle, 1967-1982,-----------238--------634----------1,292--------127
Rollie Fingers, 1968-1985---------341--------709----------1,701.3------119
Rich "Goose" Gossage, 1972-1994---310--------681----------1,809.3------126
Kent Tekulve, 1974-1989,----------638--------184----------1,436.3------132
Gary Lavelle, 1974-1987-----------399--------136----------1,085.0------126
Dennis Eckersley, 1975-1998-------390--------577----------3,285.7------116
Bruce Sutter, 1976-1988-----------300--------512----------1,042.3------136
Dan Quisenberry, 1979-1990--------244--------553----------1,043.3------146
Jeff Reardon, 1979-1994-----------367--------695----------1,132.2------121
Dave Righetti, 1979-1995----------252--------474----------1,403.7------114
Jesse Orosco, 1979-2003,----------501--------144----------1,295.0------125
Lee Smith, 1980-1997--------------478--------802----------1,289.3------132
Tom Henke, 1982-95----------------311--------548------------789--------156
Doug Jones, 1982-2000,------------640--------303----------1,128.3------130
John Franco, 1984-present---------424--------770----------1,230.7------139*
Mike Jackson, 1986-2004,----------422--------142----------1,188.3------126
Jeff Montgomery, 1987-1999,-------304--------549------------868--------134
John Wetteland, 1989--------------330--------523------------765--------148
Trevor Hoffman, 1993-present------394--------578------------764.7------148*
Robb Nen, 1993-2002---------------314--------548------------715.0------138
Mariano Rivera, 1995-present------336--------424------------728.3------190* 
Billy Wagner, 1995-present--------246--------417------------552.7------169*
Eric Gagne, 1999-present----------152--------197------------530--------124*

* = Still Active

[baseballPAP]

A dozen, just for fun.....

1 MARIANO RIVERA
2 Dennis Eckersley
3 Hoyt Wilhelm
4 Rollie Fingers
5 Goose Gossage
6 Dan Quisenberry
7 John Hiller
8 Bruce Sutter
9 TREVOR HOFFMAN
10 BILLY WAGNER
11 Mike Marshall
12 John Franco

[RuthMayBond]

Is there a reason you dont include Ekersley?

I know ERA+ is a little dicey for relievers, but as a reliever he had about an ERA+ of 138 for 790 IP. There are at least six guys who did better on BOTH (and more who were close or blew him away on one of the two). This is not to take away from his fine accomplishments as a starter or from his PEAK as a reliever, but otherwise Eck is overrated.

[RuthMayBond]

I agree with you that there isn't a significant separation there. I was just throwing out 3 names there. Personally, I think the only oversight is Quisenberry to this point (I assume Rivera will get in when he's eligible). Lee Smith is another favorite of mine, but many see him as a compiler.

These guys are all on pretty equal ground, IMO:

Great, you get the first bunch, I get the second bunch, looking forward to playing against ya

Dan Plesac
Rick Aguilera
Dave Righetti
Rob Nenn
Lindy McDaniel
Roy Face
Randy Myers
John Wetteland
Jeff Montgomery
Todd Worrell
Dave Smith
Mike Stanton
Todd Jones

Kent Tekulve
Trevor Hoffman
John Franco
Billy Wagner
Jesse Orosco
Doug Jones
Sparky Lyle
Tom Henke
Mike Marshall
Tug McGraw
Jeff Reardon
Gene Garber
Ron Perranoski

[RuthMayBond]

Relievers Form Chart:

[B][COLOR=Red]Name, Era-------------------------Saves-----G. Fin.-------INN ---------ERA+[/COLOR][/B]
Firpo Marberry, 1923-1936,--------101--------271----------2,067--------134
Hoyt Wilhelm, 1952-1972,--------- 227--------651----------2,254.3------146
Roy Face, 1953-1969, -------------193--------574----------1,375.0------109
Ron Perranoski, 1961-1973,--------179--------458----------1,174--------123
Dick Radatz, 1962-1969------------122--------297------------693.7------122
John Hiller, 1965-1980,-----------125--------363----------1,040--------134
Sparky Lyle, 1967-1982,-----------238--------634----------1,292--------127
Rollie Fingers, 1968-1985---------341--------709----------1,701.3------119
Rich "Goose" Gossage, 1972-1994---310--------681----------1,809.3------126
Kent Tekulve, 1974-1989,----------638--------184----------1,436.3------132
Gary Lavelle, 1974-1987-----------399--------136----------1,085.0------126
Dennis Eckersley, 1975-1998-------390--------577----------3,285.7------116
Bruce Sutter, 1976-1988-----------300--------512----------1,042.3------136
Dan Quisenberry, 1979-1990--------244--------553----------1,043.3------146
Jeff Reardon, 1979-1994-----------367--------695----------1,132.2------121
Dave Righetti, 1979-1995----------252--------474----------1,403.7------114
Jesse Orosco, 1979-2003,----------501--------144----------1,295.0------125
Lee Smith, 1980-1997--------------478--------802----------1,289.3------132
Tom Henke, 1982-95----------------311--------548------------789--------156
Doug Jones, 1982-2000,------------640--------303----------1,128.3------130
John Franco, 1984-present---------424--------770----------1,230.7------139*
Mike Jackson, 1986-2004,----------422--------142----------1,188.3------126
Jeff Montgomery, 1987-1999,-------304--------549------------868--------134
John Wetteland, 1989--------------330--------523------------765--------148
Trevor Hoffman, 1993-present------394--------578------------764.7------148*
Robb Nen, 1993-2002---------------314--------548------------715.0------138
Mariano Rivera, 1995-present------336--------424------------728.3------190* 
Billy Wagner, 1995-present--------246--------417------------552.7------169*
Eric Gagne, 1999-present----------152--------197------------530--------124*

* = Still Active

Um Bill, you might want to separate out the relief innings