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Top Ten Relievers All Time

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  • Top Ten Relievers All Time

    I need lots of help with this. I have a hard time comparing present day relievers/closers with those from earlier eras. It seems the role of a reliever changes about every 15-20 years. The saves stat seems more and more like a fluff stat. Heres what I have:
    1-Rivera
    2-Wilhelm
    3-Fingers
    4-Gossage
    5-Ekersley
    6-Sutter
    7-Quisinberry
    8-?
    9-?
    10-?


    I look forward to your insight.
    http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    You can add T. Hoffman, L. Smith and S. Lyle to your list, but once you get past the players you already mentioned, you get a group of about 25 guys who are all pretty much on the same playing field and none of which are HOF worthy.

    I'd move Quisenberry just below Gossage on your list. Otherwise, it's pretty much spot on.

    Comment


    • #3
      As far as career, I've got
      Rivera
      Wilhelm
      Gossage
      LSmith
      Quisenberry
      JoFranco
      Tekulve
      Hoffman
      Sutter
      Fingers
      with Wagner banging hard on that door
      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
        You can add T. Hoffman, L. Smith and S. Lyle to your list, but once you get past the players you already mentioned, you get a group of about 25 guys who are all pretty much on the same playing field and none of which are HOF worthy.

        I'd move Quisenberry just below Gossage on your list. Otherwise, it's pretty much spot on.
        Thanks!
        Is Hoffman really that good???? He always seemed like a compiler to me. Why Lee Smith, but not Jeff Reardon??? I know Sparky had that CYA in 77, but I always kind of grouped him with Tug McGraw. I am not arguing with you, I am just not sure of the reasons you came to these conclusions.
        I see your point about Quisenberry though.
        http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          hoffman is NOT that good

          alot of his saves are 1/3 innings

          and he chokes

          Comment


          • #6
            1. Mariano Rivera
            2. Dennis Eckersley
            3. Hoyt Wilhelm
            4. Trevor Hoffman
            5. Lee Smith
            6. Rollie Fingers
            7. Billy Wagner
            8. John Franco
            9. Goose Gossage
            10. Bruce Sutter
            11. Dan Quisenberry

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
              As far as career, I've got
              Rivera
              Wilhelm
              Gossage
              LSmith
              Quisenberry
              JoFranco
              Tekulve
              Hoffman
              Sutter
              Fingers
              with Wagner banging hard on that door
              Thanks for your input. I am not sold on Lee Smith and Trevor Hoffman. John Franco also. Kent Tekulve is an interesting choice. I am always intrigued by choices from an earlier era.
              I will have to research him more.
              Is there a reason you dont include Ekersley?
              http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by blackout805 View Post
                hoffman is NOT that good

                alot of his saves are 1/3 innings

                and he chokes
                Thats what I have always thought. He has an Armando Benitez streak in him. He just seems like a compiler to me.
                http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                  1. Mariano Rivera
                  2. Dennis Eckersley
                  3. Hoyt Wilhelm
                  4. Trevor Hoffman
                  5. Lee Smith
                  6. Rollie Fingers
                  7. Billy Wagner
                  8. John Franco
                  9. Goose Gossage
                  10. Bruce Sutter
                  11. Dan Quisenberry
                  I have a hard time believing that Hoffman, Smith, Wagner, and Franco are better than Gossage, Sutter, and Quisenberry. Prove me wrong!
                  http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by parlo View Post
                    Thanks!
                    Is Hoffman really that good???? He always seemed like a compiler to me. Why Lee Smith, but not Jeff Reardon??? I know Sparky had that CYA in 77, but I always kind of grouped him with Tug McGraw. I am not arguing with you, I am just not sure of the reasons you came to these conclusions.
                    I see your point about Quisenberry though.
                    I agree with you that there isn't a significant separation there. I was just throwing out 3 names there. Personally, I think the only oversight is Quisenberry to this point (I assume Rivera will get in when he's eligible). Lee Smith is another favorite of mine, but many see him as a compiler.

                    These guys are all on pretty equal ground, IMO:

                    Dan Plesac
                    Kent Tekulve
                    Mike Marshall
                    Rick Aguilera
                    Tug McGraw
                    Dave Righetti
                    Rob Nenn
                    Jeff Reardon
                    Sparky Lyle
                    Lindy McDaniel
                    Roy Face
                    Trevor Hoffman
                    John Franco
                    Billy Wagner
                    Randy Myers
                    Tome Henke
                    John Wetteland
                    Jesse Orosco
                    Doug Jones
                    Jeff Montgomery
                    Todd Worrell
                    Gene Garber
                    Ron Perranoski
                    Dave Smith
                    Mike Stanton
                    Todd Jones

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Relievers Form Chart:

                      Code:
                      Name, Era-------------------------Saves-----G. Fin.-------INN ---------ERA+
                      Firpo Marberry, 1923-1936,--------101--------271----------2,067--------134
                      Hoyt Wilhelm, 1952-1972,--------- 227--------651----------2,254.3------146
                      Roy Face, 1953-1969, -------------193--------574----------1,375.0------109
                      Ron Perranoski, 1961-1973,--------179--------458----------1,174--------123
                      Dick Radatz, 1962-1969------------122--------297------------693.7------122
                      John Hiller, 1965-1980,-----------125--------363----------1,040--------134
                      Sparky Lyle, 1967-1982,-----------238--------634----------1,292--------127
                      Rollie Fingers, 1968-1985---------341--------709----------1,701.3------119
                      Rich "Goose" Gossage, 1972-1994---310--------681----------1,809.3------126
                      Kent Tekulve, 1974-1989,----------638--------184----------1,436.3------132
                      Gary Lavelle, 1974-1987-----------399--------136----------1,085.0------126
                      Dennis Eckersley, 1975-1998-------390--------577----------3,285.7------116
                      Bruce Sutter, 1976-1988-----------300--------512----------1,042.3------136
                      Dan Quisenberry, 1979-1990--------244--------553----------1,043.3------146
                      Jeff Reardon, 1979-1994-----------367--------695----------1,132.2------121
                      Dave Righetti, 1979-1995----------252--------474----------1,403.7------114
                      Jesse Orosco, 1979-2003,----------501--------144----------1,295.0------125
                      Lee Smith, 1980-1997--------------478--------802----------1,289.3------132
                      Tom Henke, 1982-95----------------311--------548------------789--------156
                      Doug Jones, 1982-2000,------------640--------303----------1,128.3------130
                      John Franco, 1984-present---------424--------770----------1,230.7------139*
                      Mike Jackson, 1986-2004,----------422--------142----------1,188.3------126
                      Jeff Montgomery, 1987-1999,-------304--------549------------868--------134
                      John Wetteland, 1989--------------330--------523------------765--------148
                      Trevor Hoffman, 1993-present------394--------578------------764.7------148*
                      Robb Nen, 1993-2002---------------314--------548------------715.0------138
                      Mariano Rivera, 1995-present------336--------424------------728.3------190* 
                      Billy Wagner, 1995-present--------246--------417------------552.7------169*
                      Eric Gagne, 1999-present----------152--------197------------530--------124*
                      * = Still Active

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A dozen, just for fun.....

                        1 MARIANO RIVERA
                        2 Dennis Eckersley
                        3 Hoyt Wilhelm
                        4 Rollie Fingers
                        5 Goose Gossage
                        6 Dan Quisenberry
                        7 John Hiller
                        8 Bruce Sutter
                        9 TREVOR HOFFMAN
                        10 BILLY WAGNER
                        11 Mike Marshall
                        12 John Franco

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by parlo View Post
                          Is there a reason you dont include Ekersley?
                          I know ERA+ is a little dicey for relievers, but as a reliever he had about an ERA+ of 138 for 790 IP. There are at least six guys who did better on BOTH (and more who were close or blew him away on one of the two). This is not to take away from his fine accomplishments as a starter or from his PEAK as a reliever, but otherwise Eck is overrated.
                          Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                          Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                            I agree with you that there isn't a significant separation there. I was just throwing out 3 names there. Personally, I think the only oversight is Quisenberry to this point (I assume Rivera will get in when he's eligible). Lee Smith is another favorite of mine, but many see him as a compiler.

                            These guys are all on pretty equal ground, IMO:
                            Great, you get the first bunch, I get the second bunch, looking forward to playing against ya

                            Dan Plesac
                            Rick Aguilera
                            Dave Righetti
                            Rob Nenn
                            Lindy McDaniel
                            Roy Face
                            Randy Myers
                            John Wetteland
                            Jeff Montgomery
                            Todd Worrell
                            Dave Smith
                            Mike Stanton
                            Todd Jones

                            Kent Tekulve
                            Trevor Hoffman
                            John Franco
                            Billy Wagner
                            Jesse Orosco
                            Doug Jones
                            Sparky Lyle
                            Tom Henke
                            Mike Marshall
                            Tug McGraw
                            Jeff Reardon
                            Gene Garber
                            Ron Perranoski
                            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
                              Relievers Form Chart:

                              Code:
                              Name, Era-------------------------Saves-----G. Fin.-------INN ---------ERA+
                              Firpo Marberry, 1923-1936,--------101--------271----------2,067--------134
                              Hoyt Wilhelm, 1952-1972,--------- 227--------651----------2,254.3------146
                              Roy Face, 1953-1969, -------------193--------574----------1,375.0------109
                              Ron Perranoski, 1961-1973,--------179--------458----------1,174--------123
                              Dick Radatz, 1962-1969------------122--------297------------693.7------122
                              John Hiller, 1965-1980,-----------125--------363----------1,040--------134
                              Sparky Lyle, 1967-1982,-----------238--------634----------1,292--------127
                              Rollie Fingers, 1968-1985---------341--------709----------1,701.3------119
                              Rich "Goose" Gossage, 1972-1994---310--------681----------1,809.3------126
                              Kent Tekulve, 1974-1989,----------638--------184----------1,436.3------132
                              Gary Lavelle, 1974-1987-----------399--------136----------1,085.0------126
                              Dennis Eckersley, 1975-1998-------390--------577----------3,285.7------116
                              Bruce Sutter, 1976-1988-----------300--------512----------1,042.3------136
                              Dan Quisenberry, 1979-1990--------244--------553----------1,043.3------146
                              Jeff Reardon, 1979-1994-----------367--------695----------1,132.2------121
                              Dave Righetti, 1979-1995----------252--------474----------1,403.7------114
                              Jesse Orosco, 1979-2003,----------501--------144----------1,295.0------125
                              Lee Smith, 1980-1997--------------478--------802----------1,289.3------132
                              Tom Henke, 1982-95----------------311--------548------------789--------156
                              Doug Jones, 1982-2000,------------640--------303----------1,128.3------130
                              John Franco, 1984-present---------424--------770----------1,230.7------139*
                              Mike Jackson, 1986-2004,----------422--------142----------1,188.3------126
                              Jeff Montgomery, 1987-1999,-------304--------549------------868--------134
                              John Wetteland, 1989--------------330--------523------------765--------148
                              Trevor Hoffman, 1993-present------394--------578------------764.7------148*
                              Robb Nen, 1993-2002---------------314--------548------------715.0------138
                              Mariano Rivera, 1995-present------336--------424------------728.3------190* 
                              Billy Wagner, 1995-present--------246--------417------------552.7------169*
                              Eric Gagne, 1999-present----------152--------197------------530--------124*
                              * = Still Active
                              Um Bill, you might want to separate out the relief innings
                              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                              Comment

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