Trevor Hoffman vs Mariano Rivera

[parlo]

Rivera
62-44 W-L 789G 445SV 955IP 760H 249ER 49HR 238BB 859K 2.35ERA
Hoffman
53-61 W-L 885G 526SV 945IP 728H 290ER 83HR 266BB 1011K 2.76ERA


If Rivera is considered so much better, why are their numbers so similar ?
I realize Rivera spent 2 years as a set up man in 95 and 96.

[dgarza]

Rivera
62-44 W-L 789G 445SV 955IP 760H 249ER 49HR 238BB 859K 2.35ERA
Hoffman
53-61 W-L 885G 526SV 945IP 728H 290ER 83HR 266BB 1011K 2.76ERA

What I put in bold are some of the main reasons Rivera is regarded at a clearly higher level.

[Blackout]

how are their numbers so similar? the ERA+ doesn't tell a tale?

[parlo]

Rivera 2.35ERA 4.56AL ERA
Hoffman 2.76ERA 4.02NL ERA
Is this what separates them ?

[ipitch]

Rivera's post-season numbers are incredible. 0.77 ERA in 76 games. :bowdown:

[jjpm74]

Rivera's post-season numbers are incredible. 0.77 ERA in 76 games. :bowdown:

Yep, and this is why Rivera is a future Hall of Famer while Hoffman is a fringe candidate.

[dgarza]

Rivera 2.35ERA 4.56AL ERA
Hoffman 2.76ERA 4.02NL ERA
Is this what separates them ?

That's a good portion of it.

[parlo]

Rivera's post-season numbers are incredible. 0.77 ERA in 76 games. :bowdown:

yes Riveras post season numbers are incredible. But a Padre fan will say that Hoffman didnt play for a team with a 220 million dollar payroll. Hoffman only played in one WS. Suppose Rivera was judged just on his 1997 performance.?
I am playing devils advocate. I think Rivera is far superior. But I have a hard time explaining why.

[Minstrel]

Rivera: 196 ERA+ and 73.3 IP / season
Hoffman: 146 ERA+ and 62.84 IP/season

That's why Rivera is far superior, in a nutshell. Rivera has been much, much greater compared to his league than Hoffman has been compared to his. In addition, Rivera has thrown slightly more than 10 more innings per season. Considering how high leverage the innings are that these two pitchers get, 10 more of them per season is a significant difference. Of course, a large part of that difference is that Hoffman has simply missed more time. Rivera has been extremely durable.

[steve rogers]

yes Riveras post season numbers are incredible. But a Padre fan will say that Hoffman didnt play for a team with a 220 million dollar payroll. Hoffman only played in one WS. Suppose Rivera was judged just on his 1997 performance.?
I am playing devils advocate. I think Rivera is far superior. But I have a hard time explaining why.

The arguement about opportunities in the postseason is valid. However even if Hoffman was in as many postseason games as Mariano he couldn't posibly have been better. Comparing any other closer to Mariano is like comparing other hitters to Ruth. It's not fair. In both instances the #1 position if a given, the real debate is who is #2 all time.

Scott

[dgarza]

As far as postseason play goes, it generally gives you a boost if you play well. But poor postseason play usually does not count against a player. Nobody knocks Ted Williams down a peg because of his poor postseason play.

[Blackout]

As far as postseason play goes, it generally gives you a boost if you play well. But poor postseason play usually does not count against a player. Nobody knocks Ted Williams down a peg because of his poor postseason play.

it makes you wonder how Ted would be viewed if he had been traded for Dimaggio in the late 40's

[steve rogers]

As far as postseason play goes, it generally gives you a boost if you play well. But poor postseason play usually does not count against a player. Nobody knocks Ted Williams down a peg because of his poor postseason play.

*Except Arod. And to a lesser degree Trevor Hoffman. I've heard quite a few people knock Hoffman even more when compared to Mariano after his blown save at the end of last season.

Scott

[jjpm74]

yes Riveras post season numbers are incredible. But a Padre fan will say that Hoffman didnt play for a team with a 220 million dollar payroll. Hoffman only played in one WS. Suppose Rivera was judged just on his 1997 performance.?
I am playing devils advocate. I think Rivera is far superior. But I have a hard time explaining why.

Hoffman has never proven himself to be a big game pitcher whereas Rivera has proven himself to be one 100 times over. Before Rivera, I thought relievers had no place in the HOF and that they were failed starters. Rivera changed my opinion on relievers and redefined the role of a reliever.

[Blackout]

Hoffman has never proven himself to be a big game pitcher whereas Rivera has proven himself to be one 100 times over. Before Rivera, I thought relievers had no place in the HOF and that they were failed starters. Rivera changed my opinion on relievers and redefined the role of a reliever.

precisely

mo for HOF