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  • #46
    Originally posted by filihok View Post
    Through mid-August the Dodgers played at a 103 win pace
    From mid-August to the end of the season the Dodgers played at a 79 win pace.

    That's a difference of 24 games
    The Dodgers didn't collapse. They had no extended losing streaks. They had an opponent that won 37 out of their last 44. The Giants surge was what won it, not a Dodgers collapse.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
      The Dodgers didn't collapse.
      They won games at a rate that would have them winning 24 less games over the course of a season.

      They had no extended losing streaks.
      They lost 8 of11 between Sep 17 and Sep 28

      They had an opponent that won 37 out of their last 44. The Giants surge was what won it, not a Dodgers collapse.
      Since 'collapse' isn't well defined, I will no longer try to convince you of a Dodger collapse.
      Obviously, as in all cases, it was a combination of the Dodgers losing games and the Giants winning games that allowed for the Giants to overtake the Dodgers.

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      • #48
        The 1973 Cubs were probably a bigger collapse than the 1969 Cubs.
        "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

        "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Orioles5 View Post
          The 1991 Dodgers and 1993 Giants had a big leads in the NL West but the Braves ended up winning the division.
          Those aren't really collapses. Those are examples of great teams fighting it out down the stretch and only one coming out on top.
          3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Orioles5 View Post
            The 1991 Dodgers had a big lead in the NL West but the Braves ended up winning the division.
            Only six games, and it was in July
            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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            • #51
              Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
              I'm very confused about the 1995 Angels being #1. How is losing an 8.5 game lead with 33 games remaining worse than losing a 9 game lead with 24 games remaining or a 7 game lead with 17 remaining?
              Okay, I think I get it now. The Angels had a big lead in the division AND the wild card.
              My top 10 players:

              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Barry Bonds
              3. Ty Cobb
              4. Ted Williams
              5. Willie Mays
              6. Alex Rodriguez
              7. Hank Aaron
              8. Honus Wagner
              9. Lou Gehrig
              10. Mickey Mantle

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              • #52
                Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                The Dodgers didn't collapse. They had no extended losing streaks. They had an opponent that won 37 out of their last 44. The Giants surge was what won it, not a Dodgers collapse.
                A similar situation occurred in reverse in 1965. There was a very tight pennant race between the Dodgers, Giants and several other teams going into September. The Giants seemed to take control by winning 14 in a row and taking a 4 1/2 game over the Dodgers midway through the month. The Dodgers responded by winning 13 in a row and 15 of their last 16. The Dodgers clinched the pennant with one or two games left, and I think the clincher featured Koufax, 25 wins at that point, beating Milwaukee's Tony Cloninger, who had 24.

                How often do you see a pennant race in which two competing teams each have winning streaks that long in the same month?
                Last edited by Stolensingle; 12-28-2012, 04:38 PM.

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                • #53
                  It's still gotta be the 64 Phillies. To have just 12 games to go and then lose 10 straight. The funny part is, they rebounded to knock out the reds.
                  This week's Giant

                  #5 in games played as a Giant with 1721 , Bill Terry

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                  • #54
                    If the 1914 Giants haven't been mentioned they certainly should be.

                    '78 Red Sox
                    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                      Only six games, and it was in July
                      9.5 back at the All Star break on July 7.
                      3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47

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                      • #56
                        '74 Sox gotta be here: in first more or less from Memorial Day to Labor Day, up by 7 in a blah division Aug 23, on the 29th, still up by 5 over Ny and 8(!) Over the O's. Boston then lost 8 in a row, Ny was 25-12 to close out the yr, Balt 28-6. Boston wound up in 3rd, 7 back. You'd never know they were in first looking at the final records, batting .203 in Sept didn't help matters any.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Gee Walker View Post
                          The 1987 Blue Jays were 3.5 games ahead with 7 to play, and never won another game that year.
                          Yes, the Jays collapsed, but people played hot potato with that division all year. At first, it looked like Milwaukee would cruise to the title when they came out red-hot, but at some point, they lost 12 in a row or something. Then, around July 4th, it looked like it would be the Yanks' year. Then, during the last two months, Detroit and Toronto came out of nowhere, and the Tigers passed them the last few games for the title.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                            I think of a collapse as a team that suddenly starts to lose. That wasn't the case with Brooklyn in 1951. The 1950 Phillies nearly had a collapse of epic proportions.
                            good point about the '50 Phillies

                            In a Mauchian manuever, Robin Roberts was started on both Wednesday and Thurday of the final week of the season. He gave up 8 runs in 12 innings, and the Phils lost both games. Both starts were part of double-headers

                            Three days later, he somehow managed to pitch 10 innings of one run baseball against the Dodgers to win the pennant

                            Guess the pitch-counter was out sick

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                            • #59
                              The 51' Dodgers went 97-57. In August, they led by a whopping 13 games. In September, they went a respectable 14-13 after going an eye popping 83-44 prior to that. After playing nearly 40 games over .500, to finish with a month just 1 game over is a collapse in my book.

                              Other teams may have played worse, lost more games, or blew a substantial lead later in the season, but for me the 51 Dodgers are the "greatest" collapse... Using "greatest" in perhaps an unconventional way.

                              Most Memorable - Goes without saying. The Shot Heard Round The World was featured in The Godfather, M*A*S*H, and novels such as Don Delilo's.
                              Most Interesting - I'm no Giants fan, but I adore the Polo Grounds and everything about the unique ball played there.
                              Most Climactic - still the ONLY time in MLB history a team has overcome a three run deficit in the bottom of the 9th of a postseason game
                              Most Unique - Baseball's Greatest Moment - Ralph Branca and Bobby Thomson
                              Most Controversial (perhaps) - The Giants were stealing signs from Leo Durocher's CF office using a Wollensack Telescope and a buzzer wired to the RF bullpen phone - including during that game. See Joshua Prager's The Echoing Green
                              Most Elusive - The ball was never found - until Brian Beigel solved that mystery with his book and film "Miracle Ball". The reason he ball never came forward is easily explained, turns out a huge baseball fan had it all along. I strongly recommend his work.

                              None of the other so called "collapses" had the same impact on baseball history. Not even close.
                              "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

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