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  • #1

    Agree or Disagree?

    Simple idea, really. I'll make a statement that I believe in. The next person will state whether they agree or disagree with that statement, give us their reason, and make a new statement. And it continues on like that. We'll discuss historically players, managers, coaches, events, owners, etc. I realize this is kind of a game, and the mods may want to move it to BI, but I am interested in the opinions of our history buffs. We will be discussing our opinions on baseball history, so I think it is perfectly alright to leave this thread here in the history forum. As always, discussion is welcomed, as long as we don't lose sight of the focus of this thread. And just so we can keep track of the statement you wish to express, please bold your statement. Thank you.


    Measured in career value, Phil Niekro had one of the top 15 pitching careers of all time.
    "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

    - Alvin Dark
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  • #2
    Originally posted by AstrosFan View Post
    Measured in career value, Phil Niekro had one of the top 15 pitching careers of all time.
    Disagree. The man had a 162 game average win/loss of 13 and 11, his ERA+ was only 115, and he is #2 all-time for runs allowed.

    Bert Blyleven is overrated as a Hall of Fame Candidate
    "The first draft of anything is crap." - Ernest Hemingway

    There's no such thing as an ultimate stat.

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    • #3
      Disagree. His only disadvantages were pitching on crummy teams and his W/L record.

      Steve Dalkowski would've been a successful, probably overpowering reliever had he not hyperextended his arm fielding a bunt and thus causing damage to his throwing arm.
      "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
      -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

      Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Dalkowski110 View Post
        Disagree. His only disadvantages were pitching on crummy teams and his W/L record.

        Steve Dalkowski would've been a successful, probably overpowering reliever had he not hyperextended his arm fielding a bunt and thus causing damage to his throwing arm.
        Disagree. By most accounts, the man had no control whatsoever anywhere or anytime. I don't think he would have survived long in the majors.

        The Florida Marlins will be the next baseball team to relocate.
        46 wins to match last year's total

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
          Disagree. By most accounts, the man had no control whatsoever anywhere or anytime. I don't think he would have survived long in the majors.

          The Florida Marlins will be the next baseball team to relocate.
          Disagree. I think they'll get a new stadium.

          My personal opinion is that the team should be taken away from the ownership and maybe even moved.

          When his career is over Alex Rodriguez will rank as one of the 10 greatest players ever.

          Scott
          I told you not to be stupid you moron.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by steve rogers View Post
            Disagree. I think they'll get a new stadium.

            My personal opinion is that the team should be taken away from the ownership and maybe even moved.

            When his career is over Alex Rodriguez will rank as one of the 10 greatest players ever.

            Scott
            Agree. A-Rod could potentially break the career records for HRs, Runs, RBI, and total bases. Plus he may end up 3,600-3,700 hits. All these major records would easily make A-Rod one of the 10 greatest players ever.


            The major factor in Dwight Gooden's demise was the blatant overuse by the Mets in his age 19-24 seasons, and not his drug problems as many believe.

            (It's my personal belief that had Gooden not had the drug problems he still would have flamed out early based on his huge workload as a young pitcher).
            Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 04-10-2008, 11:23 PM.
            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
              The major factor in Dwight Gooden's demise was the blatant overuse by the Mets in his age 19-24 seasons, and not his drug problems as many believe.
              Disagree. I don't think it was the drug problems, but I also don't think the workload was the primary factor. According to books I've read of the Mets at that time, the Mets' pitching coach adjusted his mechanics after his amazing 1985 season, to get more "quick outs" and not be so strikeout-reliant. From accounts, this experiment did not go well and hurt his effectiveness. The workload and drugs may have exacerbated the situation.

              Albert Belle was a Hall of Fame talent who simply didn't play enough years.
              "In the end it all comes down to talent. You can talk all you want about intangibles, I just don't know what that means. Talent makes winners, not intangibles. Can nice guys win? Sure, nice guys can win - if they're nice guys with a lot of talent. Nice guys with a little talent finish fourth and nice guys with no talent finish last." --Sandy Koufax

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              • #8
                Agree. Albert Belle's injury and reputation both hurt him and both contributed to his lack of a Hall of Fame career.

                When Rube Marquard asked to be demoted to the Minors and was, all he did was get his confidence back as opposed to develop anything new, as he sometimes claimed (likely as an inspiration).

                (FWIW, SamtheBravesFan...Dalkowski had actually found out how to control his four-seamer and slider at the time of his injury...just sayin')
                "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
                -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

                Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

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