How will you rank Bonds now?

[Greerman29]

Seeing as how it seems almost certain that Bonds not only used steroids, but used an extremely large amount, how will you end up ranking him overall?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

We all have our opinions, and I agree with you. Why the title of the thread though; the use of the word "now?" What new information do we have?

[runningshoes]

Maybe because he's been doing it since '98. I always thought he'd been doing it since 2002. Eight years..that's a long time.

I guess Hank can rest easy now and stop pretending it's ok if this degenerate passes him.

Let me see if i can find a picture of a toilet to post here...that's what I think of Barry and his career.

[Tigerfan1974]

Seeing as how it seems almost certain that Bonds not only used steroids, but used an extremely large amount, how will you end up ranking him overall?

If he is a juicer, and I think he is, then his numbers should be voided and he should be dead last.
Cheating is cheating and I think he might even be banned.
(yes, I am anti Barry Bonds.)

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Bonds is still the greatest player I have ever seen in my lifetime.

[DoubleX]

We all have our opinions, and I agree with you. Why the title of the thread though; the use of the word "now?" What new information do we have?

I don't know if this is the case, but maybe you missed the reports on CNN.com and SI.com and ESPN.com, CNN television, and ESPN News, that a new book, with supposedly very strong sources and evidence about Bonds' steroid use, is about to come out.

Given what I have read/heard so far, it doesn't look good at all for Bonds, but I will reserve judgment until I read the book and see how strong the evidence and sources are (and they are sounding pretty strong at this point).

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Maybe because he's been doing it since '98. I always thought he'd been doing it since 2002. Eight years..that's a long time.

I guess Hank can rest easy now and stop pretending it's ok if this degenerate passes him.

Let me see if i can find a picture of a toilet to post here...that's what I think of Barry and his career.

I've always believed that he used a basic form going back a few years before '98, but after McGwire/Sosa, he went to newer and better forms including HGH.

Again, what new information is out there? I haven't heard of anything, yet you guys talk like theres a new revelation.

Edit: Ok, just read Double X's post. Hadn't heard anything about it. Thanks.

[Blackout]

now the real question is who is the bigger scumbag of the last 25 years, Pete Rose or Barry Bonds?

[runningshoes]

Bonds is still the greatest player I have ever seen in my lifetime.

At one time I thought he was as well, but now I can't distinguish between what is legitimate and what is not.

What would his numbers be like if he declined like everyone else does?

[Rome Colonel]

SF Chronicle story:

"The excerpt also says Bonds "learned how to inject himself" and describes one conversation with Anderson in which Bonds says of starting another drug cycle, "I'll do it myself.""

"By pinpointing Bonds' initial use of steroids to the months following the 1998 season, the excerpt pushes back the date when Bonds is said to have first used steroids by more than a year."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...type=printable

[runningshoes]

From the Mercury News:

On KNBR, Gary Radnich's usual stock phrase is "nobody cares." Ninety percent of the time, he's right. But I'm listening from the office right now, and the man has shut off the phone lines and gotten deadly serious about what the latest revelations mean for Bonds. Some samples, since Radnich is saying it better than we could right now (and better than probably anybody):

""Barry's gonna have to sit there and say, 'Folks, I made a mistake, I made a big mistake.' No more of these phony press conferences where you come out and start screaming at the media. He's a dead man as far as his credibility. his credibility's shot."

"He's been full of crap up to now except when he has a bat in his hand, and he's gonna have to come clean.''

"They've always had somebody there to clean up his mess from the Giants on down. And the giants know it too. You think they're proud having to be aligned with this guy and kiss his ass?''

We all know by now that Gary doesn't overreact. He's now on discourse about why this isn't just The Media out to get him. It's worth a listen at KNBR.com.

[Appling]

The "Book Report" I saw on ESPN News today states that Bonds was upset after McGwire's record HR year in 1998. It was then that Bonds began using steroids -- and lots of them, including human growth hormone and some kind of steroid that adds muscle mass to animals.

Very disturbing if true. We have to see how this all shakes out. (Maybe even buy the book!)

[Victory Faust]

I've read the other threads about Barry on this forum, and I must admit it's somewhat amusing to watch the SF Giants fans go through all sorts of mental gymnastics in order to exonorate Bonds, when it's been pretty clear (no pun intended) to most everyone else that Barry is juicing like crazy.

The argument Bonds supporters have used in his defense is, "well, you don't have absolute proof that Barry did steroids; he's innocent till proven guilty."

Well, it appears these SI writers do have that proof now. Every reporter in the world has been swarming around this story, and you can bet your bottom dollar that the SI editors made these writers produce tons of airtight documentation before they allowed this story to be published.

So, if the cat is indeed out of the bag, and it is proven that Barry juiced (as seems to be the case), I say we have to go back to 1997 (pre-steroids) to judge him.

And, like many others here, I think Barry was a sure-fire Hall of Famer even before the juice. He was up there with the likes of Frank Robinson, etc.: a great ballplayer, but nowhere near top five status.

So that's where I'll rank him now. Without the juice, he probably would have retired with close to 500-550 homers, which is undeniably great.

But I said it then, and I'll say it now -- on his best day (without 'roids), Barry Bonds couldn't carry the jock straps of guys like Ruth and Aaron.

And, if it's found that he indeed cheated, then he shouldn't get anywhere near Cooperstown, unless he buys a ticket -- and then, they ought to charge him double.

[DoubleX]

I've read the other threads about Barry on this forum, and I must admit it's somewhat amusing to watch the SF Giants fans go through all sorts of mental gymnastics in order to exonorate Bonds, when it's been pretty clear (no pun intended) to most everyone else that Barry is juicing like crazy.

It's not just SI, it's the two SF Chronicle Reporters who wrote the book coming out. I saw one of them on CNN about an hour ago and he was asked if he was worry about lawsuits against him and his co-author. He said he wasn't because the research and reporting was that accurate.

[johnny]

I've read the other threads about Barry on this forum, and I must admit it's somewhat amusing to watch the SF Giants fans go through all sorts of mental gymnastics in order to exonorate Bonds, when it's been pretty clear (no pun intended) to most everyone else that Barry is juicing like crazy.

Spot On Victory Faust!

Now the other question, who gets the asterisks put by their name?
To borrow a phrase from the Wall Street Journal, I say Marris and Aaron. The Asterisk should read:
'Played without the use of performance enhancing drugs.'