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How will you rank Bonds now?

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  • #16
    I'm actually really interested to see how guys like 538280, sabr matt and all the other who have Bonds in the top 5 (or even top 10) are going to adjust for this. I assume people who already have him lower than 20 have already adjusted for steroid use.

    I know we're jumping the gun having not read the book or seen the sources of there information, but it does not look very good.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Greerman29
      I'm actually really interested to see how guys like 538280, sabr matt and all the other who have Bonds in the top 5 (or even top 10) are going to adjust for this. I assume people who already have him lower than 20 have already adjusted for steroid use.

      I know we're jumping the gun having not read the book or seen the sources of there information, but it does not look very good.


      Here is a link to the reporters' sources. Looks pretty ironclad to me -- they actually got ahold of the Grand Jury stuff:

      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...rowth.doc0313/
      "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Greerman29
        I'm actually really interested to see how guys like 538280, sabr matt and all the other who have Bonds in the top 5 (or even top 10) are going to adjust for this. I assume people who already have him lower than 20 have already adjusted for steroid use.

        I know we're jumping the gun having not read the book or seen the sources of there information, but it does not look very good.
        that is a great point.
        SABERHEADS anythoughts?
        Last edited by johnny; 03-07-2006, 01:21 PM.
        Johnny
        Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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        • #19
          From the authors in the aforementioned link:

          "...proof of Bonds's drug use exists, most of it in the possession of federal agents, much of it in the public domain."

          Check out the link I provided. Unless these SF Chronicle reporters are lying, the evidence looks pretty airtight, as I said.
          "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by blackout805
            now the real question is who is the bigger scumbag of the last 25 years, Pete Rose or Barry Bonds?
            rose - he is a one-of-a-kind scumbag

            but bonds might top him if he appears on qvc tonight hawking personal merchandise

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bkmckenna
              rose - he is a one-of-a-kind scumbag

              but bonds might top him if he appears on qvc tonight hawking personal merchandise
              I love this quote-I guess this is old news to him.

              "When informed of the book this morning and asked if he was concerned about it, Bonds told a group of reporters gathered around his locker, "Nope. I won't even look at it [the book]. For what? I won't even look at it. There's no need to." He then walked away."
              Johnny
              Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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              • #22
                Anyone have a list of the substances that Bonds was "stacking?" I heard one was a drug that is supposed to increase muscle in cattle.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                  Anyone have a list of the substances that Bonds was "stacking?" I heard one was a drug that is supposed to increase muscle in cattle.

                  From the online SI article:

                  The authors write that Anderson started Bonds on Winstrol, also known as stanozolol, the longtime favorite steroid of bodybuilders, disgraced sprinter Ben Johnson and baseball player Rafael Palmeiro. In 100 days, Bonds packed on 15 pounds of muscle, and at age 35 hit home runs at the best rate of his career, once every 10.4 at bats. But he also grew too big, too fast. He tore his triceps tendon, telling Bell that the steroids "makes me grow faster, but if you're not careful, you can blow it out."

                  The book said Anderson and Bonds subsequently tweaked the program, adding such drugs as the steroid Deca-Durabolin and growth hormone, which allowed Bonds to retain his energy and physique without rigorous training. Not only did the growth hormone keep him fresh, but after complaining in 1999 about difficulty tracking pitches, he noticed it improved his eyesight as well.

                  Bonds added more drugs after the 2000 season, when Anderson hooked up Bonds with BALCO and its founder, Conte, according to the authors. In addition to the Cream and the Clear, the steroids designed to be undetectable, Bonds took such drugs as Clomid, a women's infertility drug thought to help a steroid user recover his natural testosterone production, and Modafinil, a narcolepsy drug used as a powerful stimulant.

                  Whereas Anderson's drug acumen had been forged in the gym culture, Conte and his chemists brought Bonds to another level of sophistication, by prescribing him elaborate cocktails of drugs designed to be even more effective and undetectable. For instance, the authors write that in 2002, when Bonds won his fifth MVP Award and had a .700 on-base percentage in the World Series, he was fueled by meticulous three-week cycles in which he injected growth hormone every other day, took the Cream and the Clear in the days in between, and capped the cycle with Clomid. The cycle was followed by one week off. The authors write that Anderson usually administered the drugs to Bonds at Bonds' home, using a needle to inject the growth hormone and a syringe without a needle to squirt the Clear under his tongue.
                  "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

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                  • #24
                    I've got to admit, and maybe I shouldn't do this...but even though this can't be good news for the sport we all love so much, this is actually a happy day for me.

                    For years, I've been waiting for someone to get the goods on this scumbag. I happen to think very highly of Henry Aaron, and think he is class personified -- the exact opposite of Barry Bonds.

                    And maybe this isn't such a bad thing for baseball, after all. Everyone (except a few Giant fans who post here) already believes strongly that Barry has done 'roids. If this new info hadn't come out, then these allegations would have been like a dark cloud that would always hang over the sport.

                    Now, at least, we can acknowledge that Barry cheated and move on. Either way you slice it, this can't be good for baseball -- but I think having the proof made public will at least take away the questions.

                    Hopefully, this will mark an end to what will be known as The Steroid Era.
                    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Victory, don't kid yourself. Bonds is getting all the attention and all the investigation because of the HR chase, but how many other guys do you think are out there. How many others continue to skate free while Barry takes attention away? This problem doesn't end with Bonds. Until MLB adopts Olympic style testing, including HGH there's no progress.

                      I don't care for Bonds the person or player, but this still makes me sick to my stomach.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Victory Faust
                        I've got to admit, and maybe I shouldn't do this...but even though this can't be good news for the sport we all love so much, this is actually a happy day for me.

                        For years, I've been waiting for someone to get the goods on this scumbag. I happen to think very highly of Henry Aaron, and think he is class personified -- the exact opposite of Barry Bonds.

                        And maybe this isn't such a bad thing for baseball, after all. Everyone (except a few Giant fans who post here) already believes strongly that Barry has done 'roids. If this new info hadn't come out, then these allegations would have been like a dark cloud that would always hang over the sport.

                        Now, at least, we can acknowledge that Barry cheated and move on. Either way you slice it, this can't be good for baseball -- but I think having the proof made public will at least take away the questions.

                        Hopefully, this will mark an end to what will be known as The Steroid Era.
                        Amen brother, but before we put a period on this Steriod Era we should consider kicking to the curb a few 'ah-hem' records.
                        Johnny
                        Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                          Victory, don't kid yourself. Bonds is getting all the attention and all the investigation because of the HR chase, but how many other guys do you think are out there. How many others continue to skate free while Barry takes attention away? This problem doesn't end with Bonds. Until MLB adopts Olympic style testing, including HGH there's no progress.

                          I don't care for Bonds the person or player, but this still makes me sick to my stomach.

                          Oh, me too. It makes me want to puke, big-time.

                          But I cannot deny there's a part of me that is really happy that this idiot finally got caught. I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

                          And I also fully realize that others are juicing....so maybe I was wrong in expressing hope this latest news would bring an end to the Steriod Era. But things do seem to have leveled out -- nobody is hitting 60 homers every year. So maybe the worst is over.
                          "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

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                          • #28
                            I'm going to come off as a Bonds supporter here, which I most assuredly am NOT.

                            Can anyone show me evidence of Bonds breaking a baseball rule? Sterroids weren't against the rules until recently, and the same goes for all the other supplements etc. I have very little doubt that Bonds was an abuser. But it wasn't breaking the rules.....the law, yes, but not the rules

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                            • #29
                              Barry broke the rules and used steroids, although baseball hadn't prohibited them. I agree Barry cheated.

                              And now we have open season on Barry Bonds. I don't defend steroid use, with or without legal sanction.

                              But what bothers me is the sheer level of hatred spewing out now. Some sound gleeful that a cheat is exposed. Does bliss feel so good when someone falls. This should be sobering, not cackling with glee.

                              Bill

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by baseballPAP
                                I'm going to come off as a Bonds supporter here, which I most assuredly am NOT.

                                Can anyone show me evidence of Bonds breaking a baseball rule? Sterroids weren't against the rules until recently, and the same goes for all the other supplements etc. I have very little doubt that Bonds was an abuser. But it wasn't breaking the rules.....the law, yes, but not the rules
                                The interesting thing about that though, is regardless of what the sport's position was on steroids, the stuff was illegal in general. Just because baseball did not have an official policy against it, does not mean the activity was in anyway sanctioned.

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