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  • #16
    Originally posted by yanks0714 View Post
    Did you ever see Brooks run? Slow doesn't describe him. 20 soemthing SBs in his career?
    At least he stole at a 50%+ pace.
    Wade Boggs stole only 24 bases in his career. And his SB% was 40.7%

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    • #17
      Originally posted by AstrosFan View Post
      who would you choose to build your worst player?
      Hasn't Tommy McCarthy already been built?

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      • #18
        Contact: Rabbit Maranville
        Power: Ozzie Smith
        Plate Discipline: Edd Roush
        Fielding: Harmon Killebrew
        Speed: Brooks Robinson

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Buzzaldrin View Post
          (about picking Lloyd Waner for poor plate discipline)
          Did anyone else notice this? Sorry, but that's the funniest thing I think I've ever seen here- that this got by everyone.
          At the age of 27, when he should have been in his prime, Little Poison hit .276 with 22 walks in 121 games, for a sparkling OBP of .307 (he also slugged .324 and scored an amazing 59 runs).
          That, my pompous friend, is poor plate discipline, and from a man who was supposed to be a hitter. Yes, he only had 8 Ks that year, but I don't care...this guy was just trying to put the bat on whatever was anywhere near the plate. Of course, we all know that he's really in the HOF because the committee was looking at his brother's stats by accident. Big Poison was a fantastic ballplayer, and his brother was about average...and terrible for a HOFer, a joke.

          Originally posted by Buzzaldrin View Post
          Hellborn, you are a genius and I salute you!
          It's the mark of the true fool to speak wisdom when scorn is intended.
          "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by hellborn View Post
            At the age of 27, when he should have been in his prime, Little Poison hit .276 with 22 walks in 121 games, for a sparkling OBP of .307 (he also slugged .324 and scored an amazing 59 runs).
            That, my pompous friend, is poor plate discipline, and from a man who was supposed to be a hitter. Yes, he only had 8 Ks that year, but I don't care...this guy was just trying to put the bat on whatever was anywhere near the plate.
            I guess a comparison to George Sisler is somewhat in order.

            But perhaps Bill Mazeroski had worse plate discipline (even though he wasn't "supposed" to be a "hitter").

            Soon we may be able to include Jim Rice, with all those Ks and GDPs.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by hellborn
              In the course of writing this, it has occurred to me who my true choice for bad baserunning instincts is, a recent HOFer who slipped my mind. A man who could get on base at an godlike rate but only scored runs like a mere mortal, partly because he ran the bases like he could be legally shot dead if his foot wasn't on a bag. Somebody I saw a lot of and can vouch for.
              Wade Boggs.
              Even Bob Gibson had better baserunning instincts than Boggs.

              Comment


              • #22
                I'm surprised people are having a difficult time with baserunning instincts. Rod Carew was one of the worst baserunners of all time. He was caught stealing nearly 50% of the time. The guy was in the top 5 of all time for caught stealing and had roughly 350 stolen bases.

                Contact hitting: Cal Ripken (guy holds the record for grounding into the most double plays)
                Plate Discipline: Reggie Jackson or Willie Stargell
                Power: Rabbit Maranville
                Speed: Ernie Lombardi
                Baserunning instincts: Rod Carew (was thrown out 50% of the times he tried to steal)
                Fielding: Harmon Killebrew (not sure on this one)
                Throwing: No clue
                Last edited by jjpm74; 04-29-2008, 06:02 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                  Baserunning instincts: Rod Carew (was thrown out 50% of the times he tried to steal)
                  Completely false (plus he stole home like at least six times in one season)
                  Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                  Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                    I'm surprised people are having a difficult time with baserunning instincts. Rod Carew was one of the worst baserunners of all time. He was caught stealing nearly 50% of the time.
                    Try 35% of time.

                    The guy was in the top 5 of all time for caught stealing and had roughly 350 stolen bases.
                    That's only because be don't know exactly how many times Ty Cobb, Billy Hamilton, etc. were caught stealing. The records don't reflect stats that were not kept 100 years ago.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                      Completely false (plus he stole home like at least six times in one season)
                      Stolen bases: 353
                      Caught stealing: 187

                      What does stealing home 7 times have to do with anything?

                      That's a terrible SB ratio for a base stealer.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                        The guy was in the top 5 of all time for caught stealing
                        Actually this isn't true either
                        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dgarza View Post
                          I guess a comparison to George Sisler is somewhat in order.

                          But perhaps Bill Mazeroski had worse plate discipline (even though he wasn't "supposed" to be a "hitter").

                          Soon we may be able to include Jim Rice, with all those Ks and GDPs.
                          Yeah, I wanted to pick a guy who was supposed to be in the HOF for his bat, not a glove man. Even L Waner's high average years aren't too impressive when you look at what the league was hitting then, and his OPS numbers were still not very good then.
                          It would be even better to pick a guy who had a low BA, few walks, and a ton of Ks...but who is like that in the HOF? Those guys don't make the HOF, even if they hit for power. Kiner is derided as being only a power hitter, but he drew walks and didn't K a lot for most of his career. Killebrew didn't put a priority on getting the bat on the ball unless he could really drive it, but he knew how to get his pitch and lay off crap. He was a disciplined hitter, despite the low BA.
                          I'm not sure if I'd pick Rice over L Waner...it'd be close for me. Jim is an example of a guy who hit the pitcher's pitch too much, even though he had the ability to hit it hard...often, right to the SS with a man on 1st. Somebody like Dick Stuart would be ideal.
                          Sisler was a BB machine compared to Lloyd, as well as having real value with the bat...I think not as much as a lot of people think, but a fine all around player before his health problems.
                          "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
                            Stolen bases: 353
                            Caught stealing: 187
                            Percentage: 47.1% of the time he was successful in stealing the base he tried to steal. 52.9% of the time he was thrown out.
                            Time for Stats 101

                            <What does stealing home 7 times have to do with anything?>

                            1. It indicates he had skill
                            2. It's at least an accurate statistic
                            Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                            Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Post
                              Time for Stats 101

                              <What does stealing home 7 times have to do with anything?>

                              1. It indicates he had skill
                              2. It's at least an accurate statistic

                              Find me the stat that shows he stole home 7 times in one season.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by hellborn View Post
                                It would be even better to pick a guy who had a low BA, few walks, and a ton of Ks...but who is like that in the HOF? Those guys don't make the HOF, even if they hit for power.
                                Banks might be the closest maybe Perez
                                Last edited by RuthMayBond; 04-29-2008, 06:22 AM.
                                Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                                Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                                Comment

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