Best Season By A Cleveland Indian

[Blackout]

plenty of guys to choose from over the years, here are the candidates

1904 Nap Lajoe .376/.413/.552 49 doubles 15 triples 205 OPS+

1911 Joe Jackson: .408/.468/.590 45 doubles 19 triples 193 OPS+

1916 Tris Speaker .386/.470/.502 41 doubles 8 triples 185 OPS+

1930 Ed Morgan .349/.413/.601 47 doubles 11 triples 26 HR 149 OPS+

1953 Al Rosen .336/.422/.613 43 HR 145 RBI 179 OPS+

1958 Rocky Colavito: .303/.405/.620 41 HR 113 RBI 180 OPS+

1994 Albert Belle .357/.438/.714 35 doubles 36 HR 193 OPS+ (or 1995)

1999 Manny Ramirez .333/.442/.663 44 HR 165 RBI 173 OPS+ (or 2000)

2002 Jim Thome: .304/.445/.677 52 HR 118 RBI 197 OPS+

[CTaka]

I would go with Nap Lajoie. His EqA is about 30 points (or more) higher than the others on the list except Thome (Lajoie is 8 higher than Thome's .362 EqA, but then when you throw in defense...wait, it looks like Thome left the room!). In terms of Win Shares, his 41 in 1904 trails the 42 that Rosen put up in 1953, but beats the others.

Between Lajoie and Rosen, Nap's 205 OPS+ is higher than Rosen's 179. Given the defensive edge of a 2B vs a 3B, I'd take Lajoie's season.

By the way, on Albert Belle, I think you meant 1994 instead of 1993.

[Blackout]

i'll take Joe Jackson

[CTaka]

i'll take Joe Jackson

Lajoie has the advantage in EqA (.370 to .346). Lajoie's WARP-3 was 13.5 to 10.3 for Jackson. Lajoie has the edge in OPS+ of 205 to 193. Lajoie tops Shoeless Joe in Win Shares (41 to 39). Plus defensively you are comparing a 2B to a corner OF.

[Blackout]

when Lajoie was playing in the AL it was very weak and had few stars to rival the NL with Hans Wagner

Lajoie's stats are going to look better because of the crappy competition he had.

by 1911 the AL had establihsed stars like Ty Cobb, JJ, Speaker, Home Run Baker etc.

[Colorado Express]

I'll throw a vote out to Joe Jackson.

[Blackout]

i rank it

jackson > speaker > lajoie > manny > rosen > thome > belle > calavito > morgan

[Calif_Eagle]

Al Rosen's 1953 season. Al was just 1 hit away from a Triple Crown, Mickey Vernon nipping him in a photo finish for the 1953 AL batting title. See the full story here: http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?...1275&pid=12230


Also, it wasnt on the poll but I almost voted for Lou Boudreau in 1948. Player-manager leads the Tribe to the AL flag in a thrilling race, hits 2 home runs in the 8-3 playoff win over the Red Sox at Fenway Park, then leads the Indians past the Boston Braves in the World Series. Boudreau had many of his career season highs that year offensively too, and he is a HOF shortstop. See this link: http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/boudrlo01.shtml


How about another poll on Great seasons by Tribe pitchers?

[stejay]

It's gotta be Nap. What he gave to the Indians, history wise, is irreplacable, and this season sounds great.

[AstrosFan]

Nap is the best on paper; his OPS+ is highest, and he was an excellent defensive second baseman. But the league quality thing makes me hesitant. I could look at, say, Thome's OPS+, note that it is close to Lajoie's, and decide that with a massive LQ adjustment, which I think is justified, Thome would be pretty far ahead as a hitter. But the defensive difference between the two is also huge, this time in favor of Lajoie. The candidates here are amazing, though I think Ed Morgan is a little out of place. If I knew more about LQ adjustments, I might vote differently, but I can't turn down the outstanding defensive second baseman with the 205 OPS+. Lajoie it is.

[CTaka]

when Lajoie was playing in the AL it was very weak and had few stars to rival the NL with Hans Wagner

Lajoie's stats are going to look better because of the crappy competition he had.

by 1911 the AL had establihsed stars like Ty Cobb, JJ, Speaker, Home Run Baker etc.

I think a good argument could be made that Lajoie's AL in 1904 was stronger than the NL. The NL had Wagner, the best player in baseball at the time, but few other stars. Take a look at the NL leaderboard for 1904 and how many Hall of Famers are there? There's Chance, Bresnahan, and ....well, there's Chance and Bresnahan! In the AL, besides Lajoie, future hall of famers Willie Keeler, Jimmy Collins, Elmer Flick, George Davis, Sam Crawford, and Jesse Burkett were still roaming the fields. And they were hitting against a 41 game winner in Jack Chesbro, as well as hall of famers Cy Young, Rube Waddell, Eddie Plank, Addie Joss, Chief Bender, among others.

1911 used a noticably livelier ball, resulting in significant increases in batting average (.273 to .244), OBP (.338 to .295) and SLG (.358 to .321). Granted, none of the stars in 1904, including Lajoie, could match the greatness of a Cobb or Speaker. But top to bottom, I don't think that the overall talent in 1911 is overwhelmingly dominant over 1904 as the difference among just the top two or three stars.

[rsuriyop]

I agree with the above poster. People keep down-playing the early AL years as being very weak compared to the NL when it could not have been that much more inferior at all. And on a side note, it boggles the mind that people keep rating Wagner at least 15+ slots ahead of his contemporary, Lajoie, in all-time rankings when he really could not have been that much better overall.

[Bothrops Atrox]

Nap is the best on paper; his OPS+ is highest, and he was an excellent defensive second baseman. But the league quality thing makes me hesitant. I could look at, say, Thome's OPS+, note that it is close to Lajoie's, and decide that with a massive LQ adjustment, which I think is justified, Thome would be pretty far ahead as a hitter. But the defensive difference between the two is also huge, this time in favor of Lajoie. The candidates here are amazing, though I think Ed Morgan is a little out of place. If I knew more about LQ adjustments, I might vote differently, but I can't turn down the outstanding defensive second baseman with the 205 OPS+. Lajoie it is.

i agree. LQ adjustmets are not enough to pull Thome or anybody else to Lajoie's second base prowness!

[EdTarbusz]

The best season by a member of the Cleveland Indians was Lou Boudreau in 1948. He had an excellent season offensively and defensively. He also managed a pennant winner in the ALs best pennant race, with the distractions of an unnamed Indians player dsaying the Indians had the worst fans in the league, an extrememly inconsistant season by Bob Feller, and All-Star Game controversy, the distraction of Stachel Paige, banning the beat wruters from the clubhouse down the strewtch, a player nearly dying at home plate and Bill Veeck breathing down his neck all season.

[Blackout]

I think a good argument could be made that Lajoie's AL in 1904 was stronger than the NL. The NL had Wagner, the best player in baseball at the time, but few other stars. Take a look at the NL leaderboard for 1904 and how many Hall of Famers are there? There's Chance, Bresnahan, and ....well, there's Chance and Bresnahan! In the AL, besides Lajoie, future hall of famers Willie Keeler, Jimmy Collins, Elmer Flick, George Davis, Sam Crawford, and Jesse Burkett were still roaming the fields. And they were hitting against a 41 game winner in Jack Chesbro, as well as hall of famers Cy Young, Rube Waddell, Eddie Plank, Addie Joss, Chief Bender, among others.

1911 used a noticably livelier ball, resulting in significant increases in batting average (.273 to .244), OBP (.338 to .295) and SLG (.358 to .321). Granted, none of the stars in 1904, including Lajoie, could match the greatness of a Cobb or Speaker. But top to bottom, I don't think that the overall talent in 1911 is overwhelmingly dominant over 1904 as the difference among just the top two or three stars.

i know for a FACt that when Cobb came into the league the AL was much weaker, because Cobb said it himself

i doubt things were different the year before he came into the league