The David Robinson of Baseball

[AstrosFan]

Not sure where this thread should go, but ...

David Robinson has great stats. He was a great scorer, rebounder, passer, blocked shots, racked up steals, was ultra efficient. On paper, Robinson is possibly one of the top five NBA players ever. And yet, Robinson was lacking something that made Jordan, Duncan, Olajuwon, Bird, etc., what they were. Even Wilt Chamberlain, long considered the David Robinson of his day, had what it took to be the guy on a championship team. Robinson never did. I realize it is a team sport, but you guys know what I mean when I refer to players who just don't take over big games. They're players who would be massively overrated if stats were all that mattered. David Robinson probably symbolizes that more than anyone in NBA history, with the possible exception of Karl Malone.

Who is the David Robinson of baseball history? Is there one? And on the flip side, who is the player whose stats underrate him most? Someone whose value is poorly captured by what's on paper.

[Iron Jaw]

Dave Robinson - Padres......1970-71


I know that's not what you're looking for......just having a little fun.:cap:

[Blackout]

top 5 ever???? wtf hes not even a top 5 center

[Captain Cold Nose]

top 5 ever???? wtf hes not even a top 5 center

He's in the pivot argument. Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Shaq, DR. That's my non-ranked top 6. One could argue with Robinson's all-around game he was a better player than Shaq. Not a more dominating force, but certainly a better player. For a center to be that complete is certainly not something we've always seen. I think that's what AstrosFan is alluding to. He was close to being a perfect player.

Maybe a guy like Ryne Sandberg, good power for a second baseman, good glove. Had to wait for Cooperstown, never won a ring. Just quietly did his business, was absolutely beloved for it.

[Bothrops Atrox]

He's in the pivot argument. Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Shaq, DR. That's my non-ranked top 6. One could argue with Robinson's all-around game he was a better player than Shaq. Not a more dominating force, but certainly a better player. For a center to be that complete is certainly not something we've always seen. I think that's what AstrosFan is alluding to. He was close to being a perfect player.

Maybe a guy like Ryne Sandberg, good power for a second baseman, good glove. Had to wait for Cooperstown, never won a ring. Just quietly did his business, was absolutely beloved for it.

Don't forget George Mikan and Moses Malone (if he is considered a true center). I would put the Admral 7-8 all-time. Still petty darn great.

[digglahhh]

Not to get off topic, but the problem with Robinson was that as good as he was, there was a guy at his own position, in the same state, who was better. Hakeem was a "perfect player." He did just about everything better than Robinson. There were also a lot more quality big men in David Robinson's day than there are today. (Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Smits, Mourning, Mutumbo [dare I say, Vlade]).

As for the real question, I'm going to bet you get a lot of people saying, A-Rod and Biggio or Jeter, respectively.

Also, do you mean "raw stats" or any stats? Because if it's just triple crown numbers (as would basically be the analogy for Robinson), Joe Morgan is a good answer too.

[BSmile]

"Someone whose value is poorly captured by what's on paper."

I'd say that Pee Wee Reese and Phil Rizzuto could be the poster boys for that notion.

[MattD1972]

David Robinson:

• Great, great talent
• Thoroughly nice guy
• His team went a long time without much talent around him
• Finally won with at least 1 more hall of famer on the team with him

I see Walter Johnson fitting the bill. Yes, he was the best pitcher in the AL for a long, long time. But players with a mean streak (like Cobb) took advantage of his good character to gain an advantage (Cobb said he liked to crowd the plate against Johnsoon to get a hittable pitch). When Johnson finally got to the World Series, he did struggle. He lost his first 2 appearances in 1924, and got left in too long in Game 7 in 1925. He got a World Series title by giving a good relief appearance in Game 7 of the 1924 Series, a solid team behind him (Sam Rice and Goose Goslin in the of corners, Good infield of Judge, Harris, Peckinpaugh and Bluege, the first great reliever in Marberry), and a sizeable rock in front of 3rd base at Griffith Stadium (as wel as the clumsiest catcher on the planet).

[dgarza]

Yes, I know who David Robinson is, but I don't know enough about him or basketball for make such an analogy. To be fair, David Robinson is more the ____ ____ of basketball than the other way around.

Fill in the blank with Ernie Banks, Ted Williams, Jeff Bagwell?

Walter Johnson and Derek Jeter both did well in the post-season and won championships, so I'm not sure why they are being mentioned.
Or perhaps the idea behind the David Robinson analogy isn't clear.

[AstrosFan]

The purpose of this thread is very clear if you just read the first post.

1) I never said Robinson was a top five player. I said his stats put him at that level, when you start looking at Basketball Reference's advanced stats. (Okay, I didn't exactly say that. But I'm saying it now.) But obviously he's missing something that gets him there. I wouldn't put Robinson in my top ten. And I think I could take five centers over him easily: Wilt, Kareem, Olajuwon, Shaq, Moses.

2) The David Robinson of Baseball is the player who looks great on paper, but is not someone you could count on to carry a team to the championship. That is all I am looking for. Stop trying to come up with your own definition of a David Robinson type player. My thread, my rules.

3) Let's end the discussion about how good David Robinson was, and just focus on the topic of the thread.

[Captain Cold Nose]

The purpose of this thread is very clear if you just read the first post.

1) I never said Robinson was a top five player. I said his stats put him at that level, when you start looking at Basketball Reference's advanced stats. (Okay, I didn't exactly say that. But I'm saying it now.) But obviously he's missing something that gets him there. I wouldn't put Robinson in my top ten. And I think I could take five centers over him easily: Wilt, Kareem, Olajuwon, Shaq, Moses.

2) The David Robinson of Baseball is the player who looks great on paper, but is not someone you could count on to carry a team to the championship. That is all I am looking for. Stop trying to come up with your own definition of a David Robinson type player. My thread, my rules.

3) Let's end the discussion about how good David Robinson was, and just focus on the topic of the thread.

That's the danger of a non-baseball comparison thread, though. And just because that's your interpretation of the kind of player Robinson was means that's the only one? Starting a thread does not mean absolute dictatorship of content. My thread, my rules? Not exactly. Relax, people are responding.

[dgarza]

2) The David Robinson of Baseball is the player who looks great on paper, but is not someone you could count on to carry a team to the championship. That is all I am looking for. Stop trying to come up with your own definition of a David Robinson type player. My thread, my rules.

Can you just give a clear def of what "A David Robinson type player is"? (I guess you finally did)
You say this player is missing something, but you don't really even hint at what that "thing" is until farther down in your posts.

So the missing "thing" is the abilty carry a championship team? Which is something beyond what reagular-season stats suggest, correct?
I don't think we need to name David Robinson to come up with such a baseball player.

[dgarza]

1) I never said Robinson was a top five player. I said his stats put him at that level, when you start looking at Basketball Reference's advanced stats. (Okay, I didn't exactly say that. But I'm saying it now.) But obviously he's missing something that gets him there. I wouldn't put Robinson in my top ten. And I think I could take five centers over him easily: Wilt, Kareem, Olajuwon, Shaq, Moses.

I think in baseball, rankings work differently.
Most people will place a baseball player in the Top 5 because of his stats, and not knock him down a few notches despite them.
Not winning championships in baseball does not carry the same weight as it does in most other sports...so it seems to me. That's what make this analogy difficult.

[RuthMayBond]

Not sure where this thread should go, but ...

David Robinson has great stats. He was a great scorer, rebounder, passer, blocked shots, racked up steals, was ultra efficient. On paper, Robinson is possibly one of the top five NBA players ever. And yet, Robinson was lacking something that made Jordan, Duncan, Olajuwon, Bird, etc., what they were.

It's called teammates

<Who is the David Robinson of baseball history? Is there one?>

Cobb, Schmidt?

<And on the flip side, who is the player whose stats underrate him most? Someone whose value is poorly captured by what's on paper.>

Maybe a team?
P-Bert Blyleven, Jim McCormick
C-Simmons, Tenace
1B-McGriff, Hernandez
2B-Grich, Whitaker
3B-Darrell Evans, Buddy Bell
SS-Bill Dahlen, Trammell
LF-Raines, Sherry Magee
CF-Dawson, Van Haltren
RF-Dwight Evans, Staub?

[The Splendid Splinter]

Jeff Bagwell comes to mind for me really... He did everything you want for a team.

Maybe Gary Sheffield??? if you don't count his attitude... Chipper Jones (his D is iffy)??? a young Frank Robinson?

Just throwing out some guys there... all of them had an all around game... Bagwell or Robinson would be my choice really...