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Ranking the top 10 centerfielders ever - whats your list

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  • Ranking the top 10 centerfielders ever - whats your list

    PEAK WISE

    1 Ty Cobb
    2 Mickey Mantle
    3 Joe Dimaggio
    4 Willie Mays
    5 Tris Speaker
    6 Oscar Charleston
    7 Hack Wilson
    8 Ken Griffey Jr.
    9 Duke Snider
    10 Jim Edmonds

    CAREER WISE
    1 Ty Cobb
    2 Tris Speaker
    3 Willie Mays
    4 Mickey Mantle (damn injuries)
    5 Ken Griffey Jr.
    6 Joe Dimaggio (those 3 years he missed were huge prime years)
    7 Billy Hamilton
    8 Duke Snider
    9 Andruw Jones (granted the end of his career is looking horrible)
    10 Jim Edmonds


    those are my top 10s. what is your top 10?
    Last edited by Blackout; 05-08-2008, 08:09 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by blackout805 View Post
    PEAK WISE

    1 Ty Cobb
    2 Mickey Mantle
    3 Joe Dimaggio
    4 Willie Mays
    5 Tris Speaker
    6 Oscar Charleston
    7 Hack Wilson
    8 Ken Griffey Jr.
    9 Duke Snider
    10 Jim Edmonds
    I'm thinking Billy Hamilton might have had a better peak than Edmonds

    <CAREER WISE
    1 Ty Cobb
    2 Tris Speaker
    3 Willie Mays
    4 Mickey Mantle (damn injuries)
    5 Ken Griffey Jr.
    6 Joe Dimaggio (those 3 years he missed were huge prime years)
    7 Billy Hamilton
    8 Duke Snider
    9 Andruw Jones (granted the end of his career is looking horrible)
    10 Jim Edmonds>

    What's with Edmonds? There's Bernie Williams, Ashburn, Carey, Van Haltren, Wynn ...
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

    Comment


    • #3
      edmonds was the best defensive CFer I've ever seen, nobody makes better plays (besides Tori Hunter maybe)

      Comment


      • #4
        guys I have seen play
        Mays Devon White and Andrew Jones and in his prime Jr Griffey were probably the best I have seen

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Willie Mays
          2. Ty Cobb
          3. Tris Speaker
          4. Mickey Mantle
          5. Joe DiMaggio
          6. Billy Hamilton
          7. Ken Griffey Jr.
          8. Duke Snider
          9. Earl Averill
          10. Larry Doby
          Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

          Comment


          • #6
            1.Ty Cobb
            2.Willie Mays
            3.Mickey Mantle
            4.Joe DiMaggio
            5.Tris Speaker
            6.Ken Griffey Jr.
            7.Duke Snider
            8.Richie Ashburn
            9.Kirby Puckett
            10.Larry Doby
            AL East Champions: 1981 1982
            AL Pennant: 1982
            NL Central Champions: 2011
            NL Wild Card: 2008

            "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

            Comment


            • #7
              Cobb
              Mantle
              Mays
              Speaker
              Clipper
              Charleston
              Griffey Jr
              Cool Papa
              Edmonds
              Hamilton
              ---------
              Murphy
              Snider
              Averill
              Wilson
              Puckett
              -------
              Mr. Could Have Been - Eric Davis
              "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

              Comment


              • #8
                1) Willie Mays
                2) Ty Cobb
                3) Mickey Mantle (#1 for peak)
                4) Tris Speaker
                (Oscar Charleston)
                5) Joe DiMaggio
                6) Ken Griffey Jr
                7) Duke Snider
                8) Billy Hamilton
                (Christobal Torriente?)
                9) Paul Hines
                10) Kirby Puckett

                Comment


                • #9
                  My slate of candidates for CF. Something tells me that my list may take some people aback. Not trying to be controversial. These really do represent my recent readings.

                  1. Ty Cobb - 1905-28 - 4,189 hits, 892 SB, .366, 12 BA. titles in 13 yrs., 10th in Relative SLG. Willie, cry your eyes out.

                  2. Willie Mays - 1951-73 - Best overall since 1925. Without a weakness. 9 TPR titles, all time glove.

                  3. Oscar Charleston - 1915-41 - Greatest Negro Leaguer, Mgr., Hit moonsthots, fielded shallow like Spoke, ran bags like Ty,jr. Would have given Willie a run for his money. (Negro L.)

                  4. Tris Speaker - 1908-28 - Played CF about 20 feet off infield dirt, hit great, ran great, magnetic glove. Cobb stole all his blacks/greys.

                  5. Joe DiMaggio - 1936-51 - Bat/glove combo best of his day. Played a little too deep in the Stadium but caught anything near him. Wished he'd run.

                  6. Mickey Mantle - 1951-68 - Great power, great peak, high ave. in his prime, very good glove, injury-prone, bottle put him down prematurely, noted for courage and team leader. Most famous player of his day, courtesy NYC media machine. Extremely loved.

                  7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 1889-present - great bat/glove. Super-graceful. Had 7 great seasons, which is all some others had, actually. Injury-prone last few yrs. Hopefully can fullfill his destiny.

                  8. Duke Snider - 1947-64 - good power/glove. HR totals at Ebbets went from 42, 40, 42, 43, 40, to 15, 23, 14, 16 in LA. He shoulda sued.

                  9. Pete Hill - 1899-26 - CF, LF, RF, 1B, 2B, Mgr., bus. mgr. - Power/ave., line-drive guy to all fields, bunted for hits, superior contact guy, near perfect plate judgement, seldom fanned. In '11, credited with hitting safely in 115 of 116 games. Was 1st great OF in black history. Great glove, ran great, deadly arm, base thief. (Negro L.)

                  10. Monte Irvin - 1937-48 - CF, SS, 3B - Made the MLs. Power/ave. (Negro L.)

                  11. Christobal "Carlos" Torrienti - 1913-28 - Slugging superstar, outstanding glove w/ great range, arm, good speed, good base thief. Versatile enough to post a 15-7 pitching record!! Hit .333 Negro L. lifetime, .352 Cuban L. lifetime, 2 BA. titles. Hit .313 against MLers in exhibitions. (Negro L.)

                  In 1920, Babe Ruth went with the NY Giants to Cuba for a 9 game series. Torrienti outhit him .378 to .345, outhomered him 3-2, as the Cubans edged the Giants by a 1 game margin.

                  12. Ed Roush - 1914-1931 - 2 BA. titles, 1 Slg. title, great glove, 268 SB.

                  13. Clyde Milan - 1907-22 - all time glove, base thief. Played extremely shallow CF a la Spoke, backed up Big Train in CF. Only hit .300 3 times.

                  14. Max Carey - 1911-29 - All time glove/base thief. Won 10 SB titles. Perhaps the all time SB % leader.

                  15. Richie Ashburn - 1948-62 - Phenomenal glove, 2 BA. titles, 1 SB title, 3 hits titles, 2 doubles titles, 4 Walks titles, 4 On-base % titles, 5 Fielding Runs titles.

                  16. Jimmie McAleer - 1889-98 - Speaker/Mays level glove. Best defensive OF of the 1800's. Hit .253 BA lifetime. 262 SB.

                  17. Cool Papa Bell - 1922-46 - Perhaps the fastest man ever to play ball. Amazing base thief, legged out many "hits". Regularly beat out 2 hoppers to infield, went from 1B to 3B on bunts, scored from 2B on sacrifies, once scored from 1B on a bunt against Bob Lemon and ML all-stars.
                  Switch hit, and hit for high averages. (Negro L.)

                  18. Spot Poles - 1909-23 - Clocked under 10.0 for 100 yd. dash. Hit left leadoff, sharp hitter, bunted well, stocky built, massive arms, excellent range, soft hands, accurate throws, intense competitor. Called black Cobb. (Negro L.)

                  19. Martin Dihigo - 1923-45 - Cuban 6'3, 190 pitcher/slugger.

                  Possibly most versatile player in history. 2B, OF, P, 1B, 3B, SS, C, Mgr.
                  His records: Cuba - 115-60; Mexico - 119-57; Negro L. - 27-21;
                  yielding a lifetime pitching records of 261-138;
                  Hitter: Led L. in HRs '26, tied in '27;Hit over .400 at least 3 times. (Negro L.)

                  Contrary to popular believe, Dihigo was NOT the only pitcher/hitter to shine in NL history. Ted Radcliffe, "Bullet Joe" Rogan and at least over 10 other players both pitched brilliantly and hit amazingly well to lead their leagues. They always played small ball, often didn't specialize, and played an amazing brand of ball across the boards, all while playing 12 months a year.

                  20. Jim Edmonds - 1993-present - Mays style glove.

                  21. Bill Lange - 1893-99 - All time glove/runner. Hit credibly but not lead leaguing hitting stats.
                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Didn't make the cut. Pete Reiser, Happy Felsch, Ginger Beaumont, Johnny Mostil, Andruw Jones, Torri Hunter, Clint "Hawk" Thomas, Chino Smith.
                  Last edited by Bill Burgess; 05-08-2008, 03:33 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1. Ty Cobb
                    2. Willie Mays
                    3. Mickey Mantle
                    4. Tris Speaker
                    5. Joe DiMaggio
                    6. Ken Griffey
                    7. Duke Snider
                    8. Billy Hamilton
                    9. Pete Browning
                    10. Hugh Duffy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      CF From Chart:

                      Pre-1900: Jimmie McAleer, Bill Lange, Jimmy Ryan, George Gore, Harry Wright, Paul Hines, Lip Pike, Tom Brown, George Van Haltren, Dummy Hoy, Billy Hamilton, Hugh Duffy, Ollie Pickering, Pete Browning, Curt Welch, Dickey Johnson, Mike Griffin

                      1900-1940: Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Roush, Max Carey, Clyde Milan, Clarence "Ginger" Beaumont, Oscar "Happy" Felsch, Chick Stahl, Johnny Mostil, Benny Kauff, Lloyd Waner, Earl Averill, Hack Wilson, Wally Berger, Earle Combs.

                      1940-1970: Joe DiMaggio, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Duke Snider, Richie Ashburn, Pete Reiser, Larry Doby, Jim Piersall, Jim Landis, Bill Virdon, Vada Pinson, Jimmy Wynn, Bobby Thompson, Curt Flood.

                      1970-present: Ken Griffey, Jr., Brett Butler, Andruw Jones, Tori Hunter, Mike Cameron, Jim Edmonds, Mark Kotsay, Dale Murphy, Kirby Puckett, Bernie Williams, Carlos Beltran, Johnny Damon, Fred Lynn, Cesar Cedeno, Steve Finley, Andre Dawson, Al Oliver, Bobby Murcer, and Eric Davis, Willie McGee, Willie Wilson, Mickey Rivers and Kenny Lofton.

                      Negro Leaguers: Oscar Charleston, "Cool Papa" Bell, Christobal Carlos Torriente, Spot Poles, Pete Hill, Clint "Hawk" Thomas, Chino Smith, Martin Dihigo
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Bill James' Top CF: 1. Willie Mays 2. Ty Cobb 3. Mickey Mantle 4. Tris Speaker 5. Joe DiMaggio 6. Duke Snider 7. Ken Griffey Jr. 8. Kirby Puckett 9. Billy Hamilton 10. Jimmy Wynn 15. Edd Roush 16. Richie Ashburn 23. Max Carey 26. Jimmy Ryan 35. Clyde Milan 38. Pete Browning 39. Ginger Beaumont 40. George Gore 46. Pete Reiser 47. Dummy Hoy 64. Bill Lange 67. Happy Felsch 75. Cy Williams 96. Bill Virdon 99. Johnny Mostil 100. Amos Strunk
                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Some CF Reference Resources:

                      Hitting Stats Comparison Chart:

                      Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Speaker, DiMaggio, Roush, Ashburn, Snider.
                      Code:
                      Cobb--------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
                      led league--12---8----3----4----1---5---4---6----7----8----6---0--11
                      2nd-league---3---3----4----4----2---2---2---2----7----3----1---1---3
                      3rd----------1---3----4----2----2---2---1---2----0----3----2---0---1 
                      4th----------2---0----0----1----0---1---0---1----0----1----3---1---1
                      5th----------1---0----0----1----0---2---1---0----1----0----0---1---0
                      6th----------2---0----2----0----0---0---0---0----0----0----0---0---0
                      												
                      Mickey Mantle--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
                      Led league------1----1----0---1---4----6----1----3---3---4---0---5--8
                      2nd in league---1----0----1---0---3----2----3----4---5---0---0---3--3
                      3rd-------------1----0----0---0---2----1----1----2---1---2---0---2--1
                      4th-------------2----2----0---1---0----0----0----1---2---0---2---0--0	
                      5th-------------0----0----0---0---1----0----2----0---0---0---0---0--0
                      6th-------------0----0----0---1---0----1----3----0---1---1---0---1--0				
                      
                      Willie Mays----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
                      Led league------1----1----0---3----4---2----0----3---2---5---4---1--6
                      2nd in league---3----1----1---1----1---5----2----5---1---3---0---1--1
                      3rd-------------2----1----1---1----3---3----3----5---2---2---0---2--5
                      4th-------------0----0----0---0----1---0----2----1---1---2---1---1--2
                      5th-------------1----1----0---0----2---0----1----1---5---4---0---1--0
                      6th-------------1----2----2---0----2---2----2----0---1---0---0---3--1		
                      
                      Tris Speaker--BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
                      Led league-----1---2----8---0---1---0----0----1---4---1---0---0--1
                      2nd in league--2---1----3---1---2---4----1----3---3---2---0---1--4
                      3rd------------7---2----1---1---0---2----1----2---4---4---1---0--5	
                      4th------------2---4----0---0---2---2----2----3---3---4---1---4--3
                      5th------------1---2----0---0---0---0----0----1---1---2---3---2--3
                      6th------------1---0----1---1---0---2----0----0---0---1---1---3--0
                      
                      Joe DiMaggio---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
                      Led league------2---0----0---1---2---1----2----3---0----2---0---0--1
                      2nd in league---0---1----1---0---0---2----3----2---0----5---0---0--4
                      3rd-------------2---1----0---4---1---0----3----1---2----0---0---0--2
                      4th-------------0---2----1---0---5---0----1----1---3----0---0---0--0
                      5th-------------0---0----0---0---2---2----1----2---0----0---0---0--1
                      6th-------------0---1----1---0---1---1----1----0---0----1---0---0--0
                      
                      Edd Roush--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
                      led league--2----0----1---1---1---0----0---1---0----1----0---0--1
                      2nd league--2----0----1---2---0---0----1---0---0----0----1---0--1
                      3rd league--1----3----0---3---0---0----1---0---1----1----0---0--2
                      4th---------1----1----0---1---1---0----0---1---1----1----1---0--1
                      5th---------1----1----0---0---0---2----0---1---1----0----0---0--0
                      6th---------0----1----0---0---0---0----1---2---1----1----1---0--1
                      
                      Ashburn-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
                      led league---2---3----0--2---0---0----0---0---4---0---1---4---0
                      2nd league---2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---2---0
                      3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---1---0
                      4th----------0---0----1--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---1---0---0
                      5th----------0---1----1--3---0---2----0---0---1---0---2---1---1
                      6th----------2---3----0--0---0---2----0---0---0---0---2---1---0
                      
                      Snider------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
                      led league---0----1---0--0---1----3---1---3---1---2---0---1---1
                      2nd league---0----1---2--0---1----1---1---1---1---2---0---0---1
                      3rd league---2----1---2--2---1----0---1---0---2---0---0---1---2
                      4th----------1----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---1---0
                      5th----------1----0---0--0---0----0---0---3---0---1---1---1---0
                      6th----------0----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---1---1---1
                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      leecemark; December 3, 2004, 06:58 AM Round 1 of Position Players Poll
                      Cobb Wins
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      -Congratulations to Tyrus Raymond Cobb and his supporters for his victory over an extremely competitive field. I'd like to thank everyone who particiapated in the discussions on this thread. This has been easily the best of the series so far. Whether we're getting better as we go along or this was a result of the deep field of truely great players, we had some excellent debates on the merits of several players and some good side issues as well.
                      1) Ty Cobb 259
                      2) Willie Mays 253
                      3) Mickey Mantle 209
                      4) Tris Speaker 196
                      5) Joe DiMaggio 182
                      6) Oscar Charleston 108
                      7) Ken Griffey Jr 91
                      8) Duke Snider 70
                      9) Cool Papa Bell 36
                      10) Billy Hamilton 26
                      -------------------------
                      11) Richie Ashburn 25
                      12) Lary Doby 23
                      13) Kirby Puckett 20
                      --Nobody else reached double figures
                      -----------------------------------------------------------------
                      538280; December 17, 2005, 08:44 AM Round 2 of Position Players Poll
                      Poll Results
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      We had 24 ballots submitted, and it was a very close race for #1. In the end, Ty Cobb claimed his spot as the BBF #1 CFer by a slight margin over Willie Mays. Here's everyone who received 10 or more votes (first place votes in parenthesis):

                      1. Ty Cobb-253 (14)
                      2. Willie Mays-242 (10)
                      3. Tris Speaker-175
                      4. Mickey Mantle-169
                      5. Joe DiMaggio-147
                      6. Oscar Charleston-114
                      7. Ken Griffey Jr.-82
                      8. Duke Snider-55
                      9. Billy Hamilton-45
                      10. Cool Papa Bell-33
                      11. Richie Ashburn-15
                      12.Christobal Torriente-14
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Bill Burgess; May 27, 2007, 10:59 PM; Round 3 of Position Players Poll

                      1.) Ty Cobb - 266 points (15 first place votes)
                      2.) Willie Mays - 244 points (12 first place votes)
                      3.) Mickey Mantle - 213 points (0 first place votes)
                      4.) Tris Speaker - 197 points (1 first place vote)
                      5.) Joe DiMaggio - 166 points (1 first place vote)
                      6.) Oscar Charleston - 119 points
                      7.) Ken Griffey Jr. - 109 points
                      8.) Duke Snider - 70 points
                      9.) Billy Hamilton - 50 points
                      10.) Cool Papa Bell - 28 points
                      --------------------------------------------------------------
                      11.) Kirby Puckett - 11 points
                      12.) Spot Poles - 8 points
                      13.) Martin Dihigo - 7 points
                      14.) Jimmy Wynn - 7 points
                      15.) Christobal Torriente - 5 points
                      16.) Richie Ashburn - 5 points
                      17.) Lary Doby - 5 points
                      18.) Jim Edmonds - 4 points
                      19.) Fred Lynn - 4 points
                      20.) Hugh Duffy - 3 points
                      21.) Paul Hines - 2 points
                      22.) Turkey Stearns - 2 points
                      23.) Cesar Cedeno - 1 point
                      24.) Dale Murphy - 1 point
                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Greatest Hitter series, conducted by Bill Burgess, ending November 4, 2007, 08:05 AM

                      3. Ty Cobb
                      7. Mickey Mantle
                      10. Willie Mays
                      14. Tris Speaker
                      16. Joe DiMaggio
                      21. Oscar Charleston
                      Last edited by Bill Burgess; 05-08-2008, 03:35 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Whew...
                        So great to be back (although I was probably forgotten )

                        Here are mine:
                        1 Ty Cobb
                        2 Willie Mays
                        3 Tris Speaker
                        4 Joe DiMaggio
                        5 Mickey Mantle
                        6 Ken Griffey Jr.
                        7 Duke Snider
                        8 Billy Hamilton
                        9 Andruw Jones
                        10 Ichiro Suzuki
                        "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          willie mays, tris speaker and dimaggio over mantle?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by blackout805 View Post
                            edmonds was the best defensive CFer I've ever seen, nobody makes better plays (besides Tori Hunter maybe)
                            He does make some great plays but some have accused him of "coasting" in order to make it appear like a dive was necessary. His great jumps helped him but a centerfielder who gets great jumps, takes proper angles, and has well above average footspeed shouldn't need to dive so much imo.

                            Not just defense but careers overall....

                            1. Cobb
                            2. Mays
                            3. Speaker
                            4. Mantle
                            5. DiMaggio
                            6. Hamilton
                            7. Griffey
                            8. Snider
                            9. Andruw
                            10. Who knows. Oscar should probably be between Speaker and Mantle, but he did put on some pounds in his mid 30's. Perhaps he would have done enough before then.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm not sure where he would rank, but I would definitely have Eric Davis in my top 10 list somewhere. When he was not injured, he was amazing.
                              The Writer's Journey

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