best players now vs. best players of the past

[Blackout]

C-Yogi Berra/Josh Gibson vs. Joe Mauer (sorry Joe your not touching them)
1B-Lou Gehrig vs. Albert Pujols (give Pujols another 10 Albert-like seasons and he's the new #1)
2B-Rogers Hornsby vs. Chase Utley (funny, Utley pales in offensive comparrison)
SS-Honus Wagner vs. Hanley Ramirez (I could see Hanley ending his career as the new #1)
3B-Mike Schmidt vs. A-rod (A-rod > Schmidt)
LF-Ted Williams vs. Manny Ramirez (if manny gave 100% effort all year long I'd take him over Ted. but that's just too big of an "if")
CF-Ty Cobb vs. Grady Sizemore/Ichiro Suzuki (I could see Sizemore turning into a 30-30 guy)
RF-Babe Ruth vs. Vlad Guerrero (lol)

P-Walter Johnson vs. Brandon Webb/Jake Peavy/Johan Santana - all 3 are amazing but nobody is Walter.

RP Hoyt Wilhelm vs Mariano Rivera (can anybody say they WOULDN'T want Mariano as their closer?)

[Bothrops Atrox]

Except for the possibility of A-Rod, none of the currecnt players math up with the older guys. Granted you are taking the best from one specific era and comparing them to a compolation of greats over 80 years. Decade-by-decade comparisons might be more compelling.

Albert: His body is a ticking time-bomb. I am praying he can get in 2-3 more Albert-like seasons. I see his career mirroring that of Frank Thomas-not that that is a bad thing.

[nerfan]

Except for the possibility of A-Rod, none of the currecnt players math up with the older guys. Granted you are taking the best from one specific era and comparing them to a compolation of greats over 80 years. Decade-by-decade comparisons might be more compelling.

Albert: His body is a ticking time-bomb. I am praying he can get in 2-3 more Albert-like seasons. I see his career mirroring that of Frank Thomas-not that that is a bad thing.

I think a better match for Albert is Joe DiMaggio.

Decade by decade the players are better today than they are 100 years ago. I hate how people place Billy Hamilton higher than better players. Billy Hamilton is a fringe at best player in today's game.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

C-Yogi Berra/Josh Gibson vs. Joe Mauer (sorry Joe your not touching them)
1B-Lou Gehrig vs. Albert Pujols (give Pujols another 10 Albert-like seasons and he's the new #1)
2B-Rogers Hornsby vs. Chase Utley (funny, Utley pales in offensive comparrison)
SS-Honus Wagner vs. Hanley Ramirez (I could see Hanley ending his career as the new #1)
3B-Mike Schmidt vs. A-rod (A-rod > Schmidt)
LF-Ted Williams vs. Manny Ramirez (if manny gave 100% effort all year long I'd take him over Ted. but that's just too big of an "if")
CF-Ty Cobb vs. Grady Sizemore/Ichiro Suzuki (I could see Sizemore turning into a 30-30 guy)
RF-Babe Ruth vs. Vlad Guerrero (lol)

P-Walter Johnson vs. Brandon Webb/Jake Peavy/Johan Santana - all 3 are amazing but nobody is Walter.

RP Hoyt Wilhelm vs Mariano Rivera (can anybody say they WOULDN'T want Mariano as their closer?)

These comparisons are pointless, blackout. You are comparing players, most of who have just started their careers or are about halfway through their careers against the legends of the past. Why not compare Greg Maddux to Walter Johson? Ken Griffey Jr to Joe DiMaggio? A-Rod to Honus Wagner? It's sounds like a set up to me, a subtle way to deigrade the current stars.

[brett]

C-Yogi Berra/Josh Gibson vs. Joe Mauer (sorry Joe your not touching them)
1B-Lou Gehrig vs. Albert Pujols (give Pujols another 10 Albert-like seasons and he's the new #1)
2B-Rogers Hornsby vs. Chase Utley (funny, Utley pales in offensive comparrison)
SS-Honus Wagner vs. Hanley Ramirez (I could see Hanley ending his career as the new #1)
3B-Mike Schmidt vs. A-rod (A-rod > Schmidt)
LF-Ted Williams vs. Manny Ramirez (if manny gave 100% effort all year long I'd take him over Ted. but that's just too big of an "if")
CF-Ty Cobb vs. Grady Sizemore/Ichiro Suzuki (I could see Sizemore turning into a 30-30 guy)
RF-Babe Ruth vs. Vlad Guerrero (lol)

P-Walter Johnson vs. Brandon Webb/Jake Peavy/Johan Santana - all 3 are amazing but nobody is Walter.

RP Hoyt Wilhelm vs Mariano Rivera (can anybody say they WOULDN'T want Mariano as their closer?)

Given about 3 more seasons and A-Rod will surpass Schmidt for career, and is better at the same point in his career slightly, BUT A-Rod has NEVER been as good as a third baseman as Schmidt was, and that includes hitting and fielding.

A-Rod's hitting last year is comparable to Schmidt's from '80-'81. Comparable base runners. A-Rod will never be a better than average third baseman.

In fact you can take all of A-Rod's hitting seasons and put them with his his best fielding season at third, and he would never have had a year as good as Schmidt's peak.

Had he never been a shortstop he would be headed for probably an EVENTUAL landing at around 18-20 all time.

Had he stayed at short, he would have had a shot at being in the the top 5 with mention of #1, especially since he could play an amazing 3500 games or so.

[willshad]

C-Yogi Berra/Josh Gibson vs. Joe Mauer (sorry Joe your not touching them)
1B-Lou Gehrig vs. Albert Pujols (give Pujols another 10 Albert-like seasons and he's the new #1)
2B-Rogers Hornsby vs. Chase Utley (funny, Utley pales in offensive comparrison)
SS-Honus Wagner vs. Hanley Ramirez (I could see Hanley ending his career as the new #1)
3B-Mike Schmidt vs. A-rod (A-rod > Schmidt)
LF-Ted Williams vs. Manny Ramirez (if manny gave 100% effort all year long I'd take him over Ted. but that's just too big of an "if")
CF-Ty Cobb vs. Grady Sizemore/Ichiro Suzuki (I could see Sizemore turning into a 30-30 guy)
RF-Babe Ruth vs. Vlad Guerrero (lol)

P-Walter Johnson vs. Brandon Webb/Jake Peavy/Johan Santana - all 3 are amazing but nobody is Walter.

RP Hoyt Wilhelm vs Mariano Rivera (can anybody say they WOULDN'T want Mariano as their closer?)

youre joking, right? you can see Hanley being superior to Wagner, when he has played 2 seasons so far? he's off to a career start, and even if he continued this same pace for the rest of the season, and then 15 more seasons (about a 1 in 1000 longshot), he probably wouldnt be considered better than Wagner.
Ted Williams was vastly superior to Ramirez.

[steelcurtain76]

C-Yogi Berra/Josh Gibson vs. Joe Mauer (sorry Joe your not touching them)
1B-Lou Gehrig vs. Albert Pujols (give Pujols another 10 Albert-like seasons and he's the new #1)
2B-Rogers Hornsby vs. Chase Utley (funny, Utley pales in offensive comparrison)
SS-Honus Wagner vs. Hanley Ramirez (I could see Hanley ending his career as the new #1)
3B-Mike Schmidt vs. A-rod (A-rod > Schmidt)
LF-Ted Williams vs. Manny Ramirez (if manny gave 100% effort all year long I'd take him over Ted. but that's just too big of an "if")
CF-Ty Cobb vs. Grady Sizemore/Ichiro Suzuki (I could see Sizemore turning into a 30-30 guy)
RF-Babe Ruth vs. Vlad Guerrero (lol)

P-Walter Johnson vs. Brandon Webb/Jake Peavy/Johan Santana - all 3 are amazing but nobody is Walter.

RP Hoyt Wilhelm vs Mariano Rivera (can anybody say they WOULDN'T want Mariano as their closer?)

C - Mauer isn't close to any of the legends yet. Hasn't done it long enough to determine if he will even ever be among the greats.
1B - Gehrig is the best...hands down. Pujols needs to surpass not only Gehrig's ability in the clutch, but also some of his offensive numbers, intangibles, and just plain being a legend.
2B - .358 AVG. Utley is getting nowhere close to that. Rogers is the best 2B in history by a pretty wide margin.
SS - I hope your joking with the Ramirez comments.
3B - Offensively, A-Rod will end up having the best numbers at either SS or 3B. I don't know if I would take him over Schmidt because I just don't think A-ROD is a clutch player in cruch time.
LF - Offensively, they will end up with similar numbers, except for batting average. To be fair, this wouldn't be the case had Ted not lost so many years to military service.
CF - We have a another thread on this topic. Grady Sizemore doesn't even come within the same conversation with any of them...especially Cobb, Mays, Mantle, Charleston, and Junior.
RF - Another position safe in the hands of a legend for the forseeable future.

Closer: I would take Mariano over any closer who ever pitched.
LH: Grove is the best. Since 1970, the best LH I have seen is Carlton. Santana needs to do it for a longer period of time.
RH: If any pitcher is to be compared to the legends of the past, it would have to be Maddox or Clemens. Webb needs to do it longer and Peavy isn't even in the conversation yet.

[steve rogers]

Given about 3 more seasons and A-Rod will surpass Schmidt for career, and is better at the same point in his career slightly, BUT A-Rod has NEVER been as good as a third baseman as Schmidt was, and that includes hitting and fielding.

A-Rod's hitting last year is comparable to Schmidt's from '80-'81. Comparable base runners. A-Rod will never be a better than average third baseman.

In fact you can take all of A-Rod's hitting seasons and put them with his his best fielding season at third, and he would never have had a year as good as Schmidt's peak.

Had he never been a shortstop he would be headed for probably an EVENTUAL landing at around 18-20 all time.

Had he stayed at short, he would have had a shot at being in the the top 5 with mention of #1, especially since he could play an amazing 3500 games or so.

So you're saying that if Arod had been a corner outfielder or first baseman he would eventually rank as the 18-20 greatest player all time?

Scott

[brett]

So you're saying that if Arod had been a corner outfielder or first baseman he would eventually rank as the 18-20 greatest player all time?

Scott

No, if he had been a career third baseman. I may not have stated that, but when I made the comment I was carefully trying to factor in his value had he been a third baseman. And I also was considering that if he played 3000+ games.

[Edgartohof]

LH: Grove is the best. Since 1970, the best LH I have seen is Carlton. Santana needs to do it for a longer period of time.

There is a lesser known LH pitcher by the name of Randy Johnson...I'd take him over Carlton and Santana.

[Blackout]

I think a better match for Albert is Joe DiMaggio.

Decade by decade the players are better today than they are 100 years ago. I hate how people place Billy Hamilton higher than better players. Billy Hamilton is a fringe at best player in today's game.

1-Hamitlon never had an OPS+ below 113 in a full season

2-he was the best on-base percentage player until McGraw came along

3-his lack of power isn't any worse than say Ichiro Suzuki's

4-maybe he's a Carl Crawford today?

[steelcurtain76]

There is a lesser known LH pitcher by the name of Randy Johnson...I'd take him over Carlton and Santana.

You're right. For some reason, I completely forgot about Randy. He deserves to be above Carlton.

P.S. I hope Junior gets to end his career in Seattle.