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Where does Robin Roberts stand for you?

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  • Where does Robin Roberts stand for you?

    Where do you rank Roberts? Had a great peak between '50-'55, but he was unfortunately another example of an injury-plagued player who could not perform to the best of his ability because so.

    *Note that this poll is public.
    28
    Top 15-20 all-time
    17.86%
    5
    Top 20-25 all-time
    46.43%
    13
    Top 25-30 all-time
    14.29%
    4
    Top 30-35 all-time
    21.43%
    6

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Tyrus4189Cobb; 05-21-2008, 02:55 PM.
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  • #2
    I'll vote for 15-20, although I have Roberts between 10-15.
    AL East Champions: 1981 1982
    AL Pennant: 1982
    NL Central Champions: 2011
    NL Wild Card: 2008

    "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

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    • #3
      Originally posted by The Dude View Post
      I'll vote for 15-20, although I have Roberts between 10-15.
      Really? I did not think anyone regarded him that highly. I appreciate his peak. He was still a good player overall, but I try to make adjustments if he had been able to play to his full potential. This is difficult, so I put him somewhere betweeen 25-27.
      "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

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      • #4
        I'd say 20-25
        “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” Walter Lippmann

        "Fill in any figure you want for that boy (Mantle). Whatever the figure, it's a deal." - Branch Rickey

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        • #5
          --I have him right around 20th. Roberts wasn't exactly injury plagued though. He got worked REALLY hard as a young pitcher and lost alot off his fastball by the mid-50s. He wasn't a great pitcher after that, but he was still a workhorse. Roberts had 11 straight seasons in the top 10 in IP - leading 5 times in a row with 2 second place finishes. It doesn't get much more durable than that.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's not a popular arguement, so I don't expect anyone to agree with me. However.

            Robin Roberts is the defenition of a great pitcher. When his power left, he turned to finesse and was just as good. When he retired, only 5 Players from the 20th century had thrown more innings than he did. As a pitcher, he is 17th all time in black ink, and all of that comes from 50-55. There is not one other pitcher in the top 20 from the 20th century that got all their positive black ink in the same 6 year stretch. Robin Roberts along with Walter Johnson, are the only two players in MLB history to be the best pitcher in their league for 6 straight seasons.

            I'm of the school that values IP as much as ERA, by the idea that having your best pitcher throw more innings negates a worse ERA because of the chances he'll pitch better than your relievers. Granted, it doesn't always work out, but that's what I believe.

            And as I've mentioned before, Roberts is the only post deadball pitcher to throw 300+ IP in six consecutive seasons, and I think he is the only one, there might be one other, to throw five consecutive seasons.

            Granted, this probably took away from the rest of his career, but he showed that he could become a finesse pitcher after this, and this adds points in his favor.

            I often look at Robin Roberts and Sandy Koufax the same. Except Roberts came back from injuries and added on a few more years of quality baseball.

            And Roberts had a more valuable peak.
            To make it fair, I took out one of Roberts 6 years, 1950. That way there would be an even comparison of 5 seasons each.

            Koufax: '61, '63-'65
            Dogers win 460 games, Koufax got the win in 115 of them. He won 25% of his teams games.

            Roberts: '51-'55
            Phillies win 395 games, Roberts got the win in 116 of them. He won 29% of his teams games.

            Add to that he actually won one more game than Koufax. Koufax got 3 rings with the Dodgers, and Roberts got none with the Phillies. Yet he won more games for his team. Innings Pitched.
            AL East Champions: 1981 1982
            AL Pennant: 1982
            NL Central Champions: 2011
            NL Wild Card: 2008

            "It was like coming this close to your dreams and then watching them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don't think much of it; you know, we just don't recognize the significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, 'Well, there'll be other days.' I didn't realize that that was the only day." - Moonlight Graham

            Comment


            • #7
              I have Roberts as deserving of six straight NL Cy Young Awards (1950-55). No way he's not a top 20 pitcher. He was the best pitcher in baseball every year from 1951-54. Completely agree with the idea that eating innings is huge.
              "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

              - Alvin Dark

              Comment


              • #8
                If hes a top 20 pitcher, then Jim Kaat has got to be considered a hall of famer. They are basically identical. Kaat just didnt have as clearly defined a peak. He also had all those gold gloves, and Roberts gave up home runs at an all time worst pace. I think Roberts just seems better because he wasnt pitching during a time with as many dominating pitchers to compete with.
                Last edited by willshad; 05-22-2008, 12:51 AM.

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                • #9
                  There is no justification whatsoever for the statement that Kaat is identical to Roberts.

                  Dizzy Dean had four relief wins in 1934 and four more in 1935. Dazzy Vance had one relief win in 1924. This means that Robin Roberts is the ONLY National Leaguer to win 28 games as a starter in a single season since the dead ball era. He did it with a team that was mediocre at best. Of his seven losses that year (1952), one was a 12 inning loss to Warren Spahn, four were by two runs, and one by one run (and not one single time that season did he give up more than three runs in an inning).

                  Kaat couldn't even come close to matching that.
                  "Here's a crazy thought I've always had: if they cut three fingers off each hand, I'd really be a great hitter because then I could level off better." Paul Waner (lifetime .333 hitter, 3,152 lifetime hits.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Buzzaldrin View Post
                    There is no justification whatsoever for the statement that Kaat is identical to Roberts.

                    Dizzy Dean had four relief wins in 1934 and four more in 1935. Dazzy Vance had one relief win in 1924. This means that Robin Roberts is the ONLY National Leaguer to win 28 games as a starter in a single season since the dead ball era. He did it with a team that was mediocre at best. Of his seven losses that year (1952), one was a 12 inning loss to Warren Spahn, four were by two runs, and one by one run (and not one single time that season did he give up more than three runs in an inning).

                    Kaat couldn't even come close to matching that.
                    So he won 28 games....his season was good but nothing spectacular, besides the wins. Bob Welch won 27 games in 1990, but he really wasnt that great of a pitcher that season. Kaat in 1966 was just a bit below Roberts's season. Overall for their career there is not much separating them. I admit Roberts should get extra credit for having a slightly better peak, but not enough to consider him top 20 all time and Kaat not even particularily close to being a hall of famer. And what about Tommy John? In my opinion Roberts is closer to these types of guys than he is to the Seavers and carltons.

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                    • #11
                      Roberts one year where he had like 340 innings and a 150 ERA+ is worth as much as a guy with 220 innings and a 200 ERA+ in terms of runs saved. Plus I think if you reduce his innings he probably actually does even better than that.

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                      • #12
                        As one who actually remembers seeing Roberts pitching, I think he definitely belongs in the top 20-25, perhaps even better than that.

                        He gave up a lot of home runs, but I'll bet the percentage of solo shots was huge, because he didn't walk anyone! Except for 1950, when Jim Konstanty was THE relief pitcher, his reliance on relief pitching to complete his games was virtually NIL!

                        IMO Roberts was a throwback to the Hall Of Fame staff mainstays of the 1920s, who started 38-40 times a year and completed over 50% of their starts. Even after his peak years of the early 1950s, he was a quality starting pitcher right up to the end of his career.

                        His only truly awful years were 1957 and 1961.

                        I will have to admit here that Robin Roberts was my favorite pitcher as a kid....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Looks like I have him right at #35.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Roberts eight year run from 1948 (his rookie year) to 1955 is incredible. The guy hurled 2308 IP's in that time frame with an ERA+ of 125 or so. Just a phenomenal peak. Unfortunately over the next 11 years he was just a guy. Maybe a Top 40 guy.
                            Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KCGHOST View Post
                              Roberts eight year run from 1948 (his rookie year) to 1955 is incredible. The guy hurled 2308 IP's in that time frame with an ERA+ of 125 or so.
                              How do people compare that to Gaylord Perry from about 1969-1975?

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