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  • The Pantheon

    The Pantheon is the elite of the elite. They are the players that are a step up from even the greatest players of all time. The players that rank a little below the Pantheon are still all-time greats, they are just not quite in the class of the pantheon. Who is in your Pantheon? There will be several categories.

    1. Overall players
    2. Hitters
    3. Hitters by position
    4. Fielders by position
    5. Overall players by position
    6. Starting pitchers
    7. Relief pitchers.

    If you're getting up to ten or more players in any category, you've probably got too many. Think really, really elite. Finally, I am going to set a rule that no category may have fewer than two players. One person pantheons are boring.
    "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

    - Alvin Dark

  • #2
    I'll edit this post as I go on.

    1. Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner. These are the guys I feel have the best argument for greatest of all time, which is why I put them in my overall players pantheon.

    2. Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby.
    Last edited by AstrosFan; 05-23-2008, 01:24 PM.
    "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

    - Alvin Dark

    Comment


    • #3
      --That a few too many categories for me.
      Arguably Best Overall Player
      Honus Wagner, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Josh Gibson, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds
      Arguably Best of their generation (or would be if not for player above)
      1871-85: Anson
      1886-1900: Brouthers, Delahanty
      1901-15: (Wagner), (Cobb); Lajoie, Collins, Lloyd
      1916-30: (Ruth), Speaker, Charleston, Hornby, Gehrig
      1931-45: (Gibson), DiMaggio
      1946-60: Williams, Mantle, Musial
      1961-75: (Mays), Aaron
      1976-90: Schmidt
      1991-2005: (Bonds), Rodriguez
      Arguably Best of Position (or would be if not for player above)
      C: (Gibson), Bench, Berra. Piazza
      1B: (Gehrig), Foxx, Thomas, Bagwell
      2B: (Hornsby, Collins, Lajoie, Lajoie) Morgan
      3B: (Schmidt), Brett, Mathews, Boggs
      SS: (Wagner, Rodriguez, Lloyd) Ripken, Vaughan
      LF: (Bonds, Williams, Musial,) Henderson, Yaz
      CF: (Mays, Cobb, Charleston, Speaker, Mantle, DiMaggio); Griffey
      RF: (Ruth, Aaron); Robinson, Ott
      --Thats 39 position players in my "pantheon"
      Arguably Best Overall Pitcher
      Young, Johnson, Grove, Paige, Clemens, Maddux
      Arguably Best of Generation (or could be if not for above
      1871-85 Clarkson
      1886-1900 (Young) Nichols
      1901-15 (johnson) Mathewson, Williams
      1916-30 Alexander
      1931-45 (Grove), Feller
      1946-60 Spahn
      1961-75 Seaver
      1976-90 Carleton
      1991-2005 (Clemens, Maddux) Johnson, Martinez
      --Thats 16 pitchers
      --Total 55 players which makes a good start on a "small hall" pantheon. An even hundred would be about where I'd want to go with my small Hall, but some of that hundred would clearly be a notch down from the others.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by AstrosFan View Post
        The Pantheon is the elite of the elite. They are the players that are a step up from even the greatest players of all time. The players that rank a little below the Pantheon are still all-time greats, they are just not quite in the class of the pantheon. Who is in your Pantheon? There will be several categories.

        3. Hitters by position
        4. Fielders by position
        5. Overall players by position

        If you're getting up to ten or more players in any category, you've probably got too many. Think really, really elite. Finally, I am going to set a rule that no category may have fewer than two players. One person pantheons are boring.
        Do you want as many as nine from the above categories, at each position?
        Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
        Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

        Comment


        • #5
          I think a Pantheon should have no more than 5 hitters and 5 pitchers initially. We are talking the greatest of the great.
          My votes (in no real order):
          Ruth, Cobb, Williams, Mays, Aaron
          Johnson, Alexander, Young, Maddux, Seaver

          Ideally id have more modern guys in there, but only maddux has a real claim from any post 80's player right now. Bonds doesnt below near here.

          As far as voting goes it should be really, really selective. Once every 10 years or so, only the highest vote from each category gets in. So if you get 98% one year and someone else gets 98.5%, tough luck. It would be a huge event because of its rarity and selectiveness.

          just my 2 cents. :twocents:

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm going to put 4 position players and 4 pitchers:

            Babe Ruth
            Ty Cobb
            Willie Mays
            Honus Wagner

            Walter Johnson
            Pete Alexanbder
            Cy Young
            Lefty Grove
            (No Clemens because he hasn't retired)

            A vote should be conducted and a BBF Pantheon should be made. If no one starts one, I'll gladly host it either in here or in the HoF forum. If I were to, I would use rules similar to the Hall, but a 95% vote must be obtained by the BBF public.
            "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AstrosFan View Post
              The Pantheon is the elite of the elite. They are the players that are a step up from even the greatest players of all time. The players that rank a little below the Pantheon are still all-time greats, they are just not quite in the class of the pantheon. Who is in your Pantheon? There will be several categories.
              For career value

              <1. Overall players>

              Ruth, not sure what to do with Bonds, Cobb, Mays, Aaron, Wagner, Speaker, Musial, Ted Williams

              <2. Hitters>

              Something like Ruth, not sure what to do with Bonds, Gehrig, Ted Williams, Cobb, Mantle, Hornsby, Aaron, Mays, Musial

              <4. Fielders by position>

              P-Maddux, Carl Mays, Mathewson, Freddie Fitzsimmons, Tommy John, Lemon, Glavine, Walsh, Dauss
              C-IRod, Bench, Carter, Zimmer, Berra, Pena, BBoone, Hartnett, Pop Snyder
              1B-Hernandez, Tenney, Konetchy, Grace, Power, McCormick, Helton, Connor, Beckley
              2B-Maz, McPhee, Collins, Lajoie, Fox, FWhite, Doerr, Grich, Gehringer
              3B-Brooksie, Schmidt, JCollins, Bell, Gaetti, Wallach, Kamm, CBoyer, Nettles
              SS-Smith, Ripken, Maranville, Aparicio, Boudreau, Doolan, Wagner, Concepcion, Tinker
              LF-Bonds, Veach, RHenderson, LGonzalez, Sheckard, Roy White, Yaz, Clarke, Billy Williams
              CF-Mays, Speaker, AJones, Flood, Ashburn, Carey, Blair, DOM DiMaggio, Devon White
              RF-Clemente, Ott, Barfield, Callison, DwEvans, Hooper, LWalker, Aaron, PO'Neill

              <6. Starting pitchers>

              I suspect Paige belongs at the top, Young, WJohnson, not sure what to do with Clemens, Alexander, Maddux, Grove, Mathewson, Nichols, Seaver

              <7. Relief pitchers.>

              Rivera, Wilhelm, Gossage, LSmith, Quiz, Franco, Tekulve, Hoffman, Sutter. Wagner will probably replace Sutter soon
              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

              Comment


              • #8
                You don't need to go nine deep at the by position categories or any others, so if you want to trim it down, you can. If you'd rather not, that's fine too, though nine is probably pushing it in what I would define as the Pantheon.
                "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                - Alvin Dark

                Comment


                • #9
                  <1. Overall players>

                  Mays, Speaker, Wagner, Lajoie (interpreted this as hitting + defense)

                  <2. Hitters>

                  Ted Williams, Ruth, Bonds, Cobb

                  <4. Fielders by position>

                  P-Maddux
                  C- Bench
                  1B-Hernandez
                  2B-Mazeroski
                  3B-Brooks Robinson (honorable mention for Clete Boyer)
                  SS-Ozzie
                  LF-Yazstremski
                  CF-Mays
                  RF-Dwight Evans

                  <6. Starting pitchers>

                  Maddux, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Pedro Martinez (peak junkie)

                  <7. Relief pitchers.>

                  Hoyt, Mo, Goose, Wags
                  Originally posted by Cougar
                  "Read at your own risk. Baseball Fever shall not be responsible if you become clinically insane trying to make sense of this post. People under 18 must read in the presence of a parent, guardian, licensed professional, or Dr. Phil."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nerfan View Post
                    <1. Overall players>

                    Mays, Speaker, Wagner, Lajoie (interpreted this as hitting + defense)
                    I mean overall, as in greatest or most valuable. Not best all-around. Also, you don't have to limit yourself to one fielder per position.
                    "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                    - Alvin Dark

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Would anybody mind if I started a BBF Pantheon?
                      "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What is the true definition of Pantheon? If we are to take everything into account, DiMaggio might well belong on the list, given his road numbers. And to Bonds, I don't think he belongs anywhere near this discussion naturally. All-time great, sure. Top 15, sure. But if Pantheon means best of even the best of the best....no dice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                          What is the true definition of Pantheon? If we are to take everything into account, DiMaggio might well belong on the list, given his road numbers. And to Bonds, I don't think he belongs anywhere near this discussion naturally. All-time great, sure. Top 15, sure. But if Pantheon means best of even the best of the best....no dice.

                          I totally agree.
                          "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            When I think of a baseball pantheon, this is what comes to mind:

                            Position players:

                            Ruth
                            Wagner
                            Cobb
                            Mays

                            Pitchers:

                            Walter Johnson
                            Lefty Grove
                            Greg Maddux
                            Cy Young

                            Many other great players, but this is my cream of the crop.

                            Comment

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