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Sultan of Swat, Big Dipper, and the Great One

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  • Sultan of Swat, Big Dipper, and the Great One

    Since no one in baseball history can really compare to Babe Ruth I thought we take the debate to another level. Who dominated their sport more, Babe Ruth, Wilt Chamberlain, or Wayne Gretzky?
    46
    Wilt Chamberlain
    13.04%
    6
    Babe Ruth
    52.17%
    24
    Wayne Gretzky
    34.78%
    16
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Since no one in baseball history can really compare to Babe Ruth I thought we take the debate to another level. Who dominated their sport more, Babe Ruth, Wilt Chamberlain, or Wayne Gretzky?
    How do you personally define dominating one's sport?

    Comment


    • #3
      I voted Gretzky. He seems like the only one who is unanimously considered the best ever at their sport. Ruth is really close, but I see a lot more people saying Cobb over Ruth than people saying Lemiuex/Orr over Gretzky. And I can't vote Wilt when I believe Jordan to be the best basketball player ever.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
        How do you personally define dominating one's sport?
        I'd like to leave that open to interpretation. Personally, I define it as how far beyond one played their sport beyond that of the typical player in their league.
        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

        Comment


        • #5
          Its much easier for one player to make a difference in basketball, though I feel that Chamberlain definitely dominated inferior competition going up against 6-7 centers for example. I prefer Kareem as an all around player because his shot was physically unstoppable and he hit his free-throws. I think that Kareem in Wilt or Russell's age would have been better than either of them. Jordan was also dominant because he affected so many phases of the game, from frustrating opponents with defense, to handling the ball most of the time on offense despite not being a point guard. In fact I think that Jordan's ability to win, and affect on all phases of the game probably make him the one player in all of sports who most affected the outcome of the entire season and post-season.

          Gretzky was great, but he also played at the right time to rack up the huge numbers. If he had played today and put up 140-160 points per season he might be regarded differently. Also, he was not physically dominating, and his later years proved that he alone could not carry a team all the way.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by brett View Post
            Its much easier for one player to make a difference in basketball, though I feel that Chamberlain definitely dominated inferior competition going up against 6-7 centers for example. I prefer Kareem as an all around player because his shot was physically unstoppable and he hit his free-throws. I think that Kareem in Wilt or Russell's age would have been better than either of them.
            Chamberlain was simply far superior to Jabbar physically. One thing that gets lost was Chamberlain's freakish endurance. He literally never rested. In his monster 1961-62 season he averaged 48.5 minutes per game. He played 3,882 minutes of his team's 3,890 minutes. Chamberlain rested all of eight minutes all season. Also, Chamberlain's game was a power game. He got hammered with hard fouls all the time. He faced double and triple teams constantly. Jabbar, even in his prime, didn't get pounded the way Chamberlain did because Jabbar's game was not a power game.

            Jordan was also dominant because he affected so many phases of the game, from frustrating opponents with defense, to handling the ball most of the time on offense despite not being a point guard. In fact I think that Jordan's ability to win, and affect on all phases of the game probably make him the one player in all of sports who most affected the outcome of the entire season and post-season.
            This is somewhat overstated. Jordan didn't win an NBA title until his 7th year in the league. It's takes a strong team to win an NBA title and it wasn't until Scottie Pippin and Horace Grant stepped up their game enough to help Jordan. Later on Jordan got more solid players to help him withe second three-peat after his first retirement. Also, in the Bulls six trips to the NBA finals they never really faced a dominant team with dominant center.

            Gretzky was great, but he also played at the right time to rack up the huge numbers. If he had played today and put up 140-160 points per season he might be regarded differently. Also, he was not physically dominating, and his later years proved that he alone could not carry a team all the way.
            This is an interesting argument. Could not the same be said about Ruth? If Ruth's peak had been in the 1900s or 1960s his stats would have been different I would think.
            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

            Comment


            • #7
              What about Michael Jordan?
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              • #8
                Am I viewing this the right way. Not because this happens to be a baseball board but I look at all the far more baseball players the long history and greats that Ruth had to outshine compared to all the .............who were they, great hockey players, smaller field of competition although I would admit it was no smaller for Gretzky than it was for the other hockey players. Not to take anything away from Gretzky a one mna gang how many other greats were there. Six on the ice one in goal two defenseman who may not be out to score that often.

                Maybe it's all relative, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

                I know in my time it has to be Wayne.
                Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 06-01-2008, 05:32 PM.

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                • #9
                  Babe Ruth - The Babe Ruth of Baseball

                  Babe Ruth. He was the Babe Ruth of Baseball. He was far more superior to his competiton than were others have been in their sports. More records, more achievements, more impact, more enduring legacy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NewYork NewYork View Post
                    I voted Gretzky. He seems like the only one who is unanimously considered the best ever at their sport. Ruth is really close, but I see a lot more people saying Cobb over Ruth than people saying Lemiuex/Orr over Gretzky. And I can't vote Wilt when I believe Jordan to be the best basketball player ever.

                    But Gretzky isn't unanimously thought of as the greatest ever. Some people insist Gordie Howe holds that crown.
                    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It might not factor in now because we have no way of knowing how Gretzky will fare over the long haul. But one thing for sure Ruth's shadow over the game seems to get longer with the passing years.

                      He played his last game 73 years ago and he's still the measuring stick for all baseball players and even other athletes. More athletes in all sports are referenced to Ruth, he's the guy most are compared to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You might have included Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Jack Dempsey, Tiger Woods, Jack Nickalaus.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill Burgess View Post
                          You might have included Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Jack Dempsey, Tiger Woods, Jack Nickalaus.
                          I was tempted to list Tiger Woods but his career is not over yet.
                          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you really wanted a better idea, Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, and Pele should be in that poll and even then, this IS a baseball site, so the results may be skewed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MadHatter View Post
                              What about Michael Jordan?
                              What about him? As great as Jordan was he was simply not on par with Chamberlain in terms of sheer domination of his sport. The Big Dipper was simply a force of nature it seemed. There have been just sixty 60-point games in the 61 year history of the NBA. Wilt had 32 of those games. Jordan and Kobe are second all time with four 60-point games each. Wilt had more 60-point games by himself then all of the other players in NBA history combined. Of the 10 70-point games in NBA history, Chamberlain had six of them.

                              Code:
                              Pts    Player, Team                         Opponent        Date
                              ===    ============                         ========        ====
                              
                              100    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       New York        3/2/1962
                               81    Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers               Toronto        1/22/2006
                               78    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       LA Lakers      12/8/1961 (3OT)
                               73    David Thompson, Denver               Detroit         4/9/1978
                               73    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      New York      11/16/1962
                               73    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       Chicago        1/13/1962
                               72    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      LA Lakers      11/3/1962
                               71    David Robinson, San Antonio          LA Clippers    4/24/1994
                               71    Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers              New York      11/15/1960
                               70    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      Syracuse       3/10/1963
                               69    Michael Jordan, Chicago              Cleveland      3/28/1990 (OT)
                               68    Pete Maravich, New Orleans           New York       2/25/1977
                               68    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       Chicago       12/16/1967
                               67    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      LA Lakers      1/11/1963
                               67    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       New York       2/25/1962
                               67    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       St Louis       2/17/1962
                               67    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       New York        3/9/1961
                               66    Wilt Chamberlain, LA Lakers          Phoenix         2/9/1969
                               65    Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers               Portland       3/16/2007
                               65    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       LA Lakers       2/7/1966
                               65    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       St Louis       2/27/1962
                               65    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       Cincinnati     2/13/1962
                               64    Michael Jordan, Chicago              Orlando        1/16/1993 (OT)
                               64    Rick Barry, Golden State             Portland       3/26/1974
                               64    Elgin Baylor, Minneapolis            Boston         11/8/1959
                               63    George Gervin, San Antonio           New Orleans     4/9/1978
                               63    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      Philadelphia  11/26/1964
                               63    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      LA Lakers     12/14/1962
                               63    Jerry West, LA Lakers                New York       1/17/1962
                               63    Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers              Philadelphia   12/8/1961 (3OT)
                               63    Joe Fulks, Philadelphia              Indiana        2/10/1949
                               62    Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers               Dallas        12/20/2005
                               62    Tracy McGrady, Orlando               Washington     3/10/2004
                               62    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      Philadelphia    3/3/1966
                               62    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      Cincinnati    11/15/1964
                               62    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      New York       1/29/1963
                               62    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       Syracuse       1/21/1962 (OT)
                               62    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       St Louis       1/17/1962 (OT)
                               62    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       Boston         1/14/1962
                               61    Shaquille O'Neal, LA Lakers          LA Clippers     3/6/2000
                               61    Karl Malone, Utah                    Milwaukee      1/27/1990
                               61    Michael Jordan, Chicago              Atlanta        4/16/1987
                               61    Michael Jordan, Chicago              Detroit         3/4/1987 (OT)
                               61    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      St Louis      12/18/1962
                               61    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      Syracuse      12/11/1962
                               61    Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco      Cincinnati    11/21/1962
                               61    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       Chicago        2/28/1962
                               61    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       St Louis       2/22/1962
                               61    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       Chicago        12/9/1961
                               61    George Mikan, Minneapolis            Rochester      1/20/1952 (2OT)
                               60    Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers               Memphis        3/22/2007
                               60    Gilbert Arenas, Washington           Los Angeles   12/17/2006 (OT)
                               60    Allen Iverson, Philadelphia          Orlando        2/12/2005
                               60    Tom Chambers, Phoenix                Seattle        3/24/1990
                               60    Larry Bird, Boston                   Atlanta        3/12/1985
                               60    Bernard King, New York               New Jersey    12/25/1984
                               60    Wilt Chamberlain, LA Lakers          Cincinnati     1/26/1969
                               60    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       LA Lakers     12/29/1961
                               60    Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia       LA Lakers      12/1/1961
                              Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 06-01-2008, 08:50 PM.
                              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                              Comment

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