I don't want Hammerin' Hank to lose his record!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

As a die-hard Giants and, until recently, a Bonds' supporter, I don't want Bonds to break Hank's HR record! :grouchy :grouchy h h

OK, I feel better getting that off of my chest.

And I wouldn't mind if he passed Ruth!! Just kidding. Just messing with ya, Sultan.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

As a die-hard Giants and, until recently, a Bonds' supporter, I don't want Bonds to break Hank's HR record!

OK, I feel better getting that off of my chest.

And I wouldn't mind if he passed Ruth!! Just kidding. Just messing with ya, Sultan.

lol, funny :grouchy

Dude, last October I started this thread ( http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=35053). Did you ever vote?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

According to the poll results, it looks like HWR voted that he would be "happy" when/if Bonds hits both 715 and 756.

Sounds like a different tune today.

Can't a man change his mind? h

[johnny]

As a die-hard Giants and, until recently, a Bonds' supporter, I don't want Bonds to break Hank's HR record! :grouchy :grouchy h h

OK, I feel better getting that off of my chest.

And I wouldn't mind if he passed Ruth!! Just kidding. Just messing with ya, Sultan.

Damn Honus, looks like your running the gaumet of emotions there. I'm thinking you need an Icon Intervention!
At the very least, we need to schedule you for some intense time on the coach with Dr. Phil...or at least Dr. Frasier Crane if you find your way out here to Seattle

[Ubiquitous]

If you were omnipotent, would you budge?

omnipresent not omnipotent

[johnny]

Labeling Hank Aaron a cheater is asinine. Of all the past greats to pick out to question one's integrity, he'd be one of the last guys I would choose. The only reason some people didn't want Hank to break Ruth's record was because he was black. Nobody at the time ever considered him to be a cheater of any sort. There's no reason to try to drag his name in the mud because of Bonds actions.

Don't you see Bench 5? After years of denial they have lost that argument and now can only prevail if they can bring other players down to that level so as to use the 'see, everybody does it' argument.

[Ubiquitous]

Don't you see Johnny, no.

Bonds cheated
Willie Mays cheated
Hank Aaron is rumored to have cheated
Mickey Mantle is rumored to have cheated
Mike Schmidt cheated
Don Drysdale cheated
Whitey Ford cheated
Rogers Hornsby cheated
Greg Maddux cheated
Roger Clemens cheated

Don't you see johnny that for years those against Barry have been using rumors and the old "come on look at him" attack and now when its use against them what happens? They don't like it. Suddenly the shoe is on the other foot, and guess what a lot of them don't like it. For years nobody needed facts or proof that Barry and others were juicing well you know what then I don't need either to call out Hank Aaron.

[Ubiquitous]

Not really desperate times. I'm not a fan of Bonds. He was a great player who became greater through drugs and hard work. It doesn't bother me that he took steroids. It doesn't bother me that Willie Mays took speed or that Mantle and Aaron were supposedly using drugs either. The record book isn't some kind of holy tablet for me, I don't need the names on it to be pure and innocent.

[johnny]

Don't you see Johnny, no.

Bonds cheated
Willie Mays cheated
Hank Aaron is rumored to have cheated
Mickey Mantle is rumored to have cheated
Mike Schmidt cheated
Don Drysdale cheated
Whitey Ford cheated
Rogers Hornsby cheated

Don't you see johnny that for years those against Barry have been using rumors and the old "come on look at him" attack and now when its use against them what happens? They don't like it. Suddenly the shoe is on the other foot, and guess what a lot of them don't like it. For years nobody needed facts or proof that Barry and others were juicing well you know what then I don't need either to call out Hank Aaron.

Hey Ubi,
I have it on good authority that back in '34 Eleanor and Lou Gerhig lost track of time and he had to break some traffic laws to make it in time to the game. That is 'kind of cheating' so why don't you add him to your list. It sure elevates Barry.


"Don't you see johnny that for years those against Barry have been using rumors and the old "come on look at him" attack and now when its use against them what happens? They don't like it. Suddenly the shoe is on the other foot, and guess what a lot of them don't like it. For years nobody needed facts or proof that Barry and others were juicing well you know what then I don't need either to call out Hank Aaron.[/QUOTE]


Dude, use your eyes and reason: even his head grew! h

Go ahead, do the DiCaprio bit and ride the SS Bonds all the way down and smear every HOF'r as you see fit such as Henry Aaron a man that endured a heck of a lot to include Jim Crow in the deep south to become the player he was and his place in history. Yep, that is a classy move to slime Hank.

The truth will out. Sunlight IS the best disinfectant in the world. Let it rain in and lets see what we shall see. So even if Barry stays and piles up another half score of 70 plus homer seasons and retires with numbers that pass up Hamerin Hank and Eddie Mathews put together fans will make their own determination.

PS: My tagline is a cautionary tale and not meant to be taken literally.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Damn Honus, looks like your running the gaumet of emotions there. I'm thinking you need an Icon Intervention!
At the very least, we need to schedule you for some intense time on the coach with Dr. Phil...or at least Dr. Frasier Crane if you find your way out here to Seattle

You are not going to ask me to lay down on the couch and tell you about my mother are you? :o

[johnny]

You are not going to ask me to lay down on the couch and tell you about my mother are you? :o

Hey
I am a disciple of Jung -not Freud- so no blaming it all on mama allowed!


That line was courtesy of Dr. Niles Crane

[Ubiquitous]

Hey Ubi,
I have it on good authority that back in '34 Eleanor and Lou Gerhig lost track of time and he had to break some traffic laws to make it in time to the game. That is 'kind of cheating' so why don't you add him to your list. It sure elevates Barry.

Yep thats it trivialize it. Doesn't mean you are right, smoke and mirrors.

Dude, use your eyes and reason: even his head grew! h

Go ahead, do the DiCaprio bit and ride the SS Bonds all the way down and smear every HOF'r as you see fit such as Henry Aaron a man that endured a heck of a lot to include Jim Crow in the deep south to become the player he was and his place in history. Yep, that is a classy move to slime Hank.

Oh so now its classless to base opinions on rumors and suppositions? I don't care if Hank Aaron single-handedly punched an asteroid out of its trajectory towards earth. It has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of cheating. So because he had to deal with racism he is free of suspicion or is he simply free to cheat however he likes? The whispers of Aarons drug use has been with us for decades.

The truth will out. Sunlight IS the best disinfectant in the world. Let it rain in and lets see what we shall see. So even if Barry stays and piles up another half score of 70 plus homer seasons and retires with numbers that pass up Hamerin Hank and Eddie Mathews put together fans will make their own determination.

PS: My tagline is a cautionary tale and not meant to be taken literally.

Yes I agree let the sunlight in, lets reveal all. Lets see what Willie Mays did, lets see what Hank Aaron did.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

With all this crap Bonds took is he going to die at age 50? Not that I want him to.

[Ubiquitous]

Go for it, then. Present your case. Show us the loads of evidence, show us the proof on Aaron and Mays.

I won't hold my breath...

In fact, here, I'll go first.

A real classy move to slime Hank on your part, I agree with the others here.

The truth is you have nothing substantive or remotely conclusive.

Just keep aimlessly naming names. It's obviously convincing everyone and it's doing wonders for your credibility.

Funny up until a week ago you could never even write that list. You had nothing substantive or remotely conclusive yet you and many others have slimed Barry Bonds and you have probably been doing it for years. If I had asked you 4 years ago to make a list of proof against Barry you couldn't do it, if I asked you two years ago you couldn't do it. But lets forget all that and demand absolute proof now, but only after you finally attained some proof on Barry. Where was these high standards when you didn't have a thing on Barry?

Aimlessly naming names huh? Well lets see Willie Mays name came up in court documents. Greg Maddux has been seen using pine tar on baseballs, and yes this was way before Buerhle ever made is accusation, Hornsby admitted to cheating, Clemens took at the very least Vioxx (which wasn't illegal) and has Canseco who so far has been right saying he took steroids. Hank Aaron has been rumored to have taken greenies for at least a decade now, but yeah lets pretend its a new accusation that way we can dismiss it as just a way to protect Bonds.

[Ubiquitous]

Ok I'm genuinely curious here, can anyone actually point to a rumor in baseball that didn't turn out to be true?

Rumors and accusations were flying after 1919, and guess what? They did it.

People said that Pete Rose gambled on basebal, and guess what he did.

There were whispers about Albert Belles bat, and yep it was corked.
They thought Mike Scott and the Astro's were scuffing balls, and they were.
Canseco took steroids
Bonds took steroids
Palmeiro took steroids


So far the only rumor that I can recall that hasn't been proven is Pujols age. Again I'm not saying that all rumors are true I simply would like to know about some rumors and whether they got proven or disproven.