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  • #16
    Originally posted by johnny
    Not only that, while I can understand the Bonds or Marris I am curious as to the reasoning behind McGwire's votes. Not attacking, just curious.
    Maybe because they think it was only done on Andro (smokescreen).

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by BoSox Rule
      73 is a larger number than 70, 66, 65, 64, 61, and 60.
      yes, absent context...
      Johnny
      Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

      Comment


      • #18
        In ten years or however long it takes when somebody approaches this level of homers in a season everybody is going to want to see him try for Bonds homer record. Who is going to say well he beat Maris' record so has it now, and when somebody does come along and take the record the headline is going to be Soandso break Bonds single season record.

        50 years from now if no one breaks the record it will be Barry Bonds who is the single season home run champ and who has the number that must be beaten, not Maris. When Maris broke the record there was an uproar and I'm sure that a lot of people felt just like a lot of you guys, that Babe was the rightful record holder and that was how they were going to view it. Fast forward a decade and everyone for the most part has accepted Roger as the record holder.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by johnny
          yes, absent context...
          Oh I don't think we want to bring context into this argument.
          162 game schedule
          Expansion year
          quality of pitchers
          segregation
          hitting philosophies. . . . .

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Ubiquitous
            Oh I don't think we want to bring context into this argument.
            162 game schedule
            Expansion year
            quality of pitchers
            segregation
            hitting philosophies. . . . .
            ditto
            16 teams
            ditto times 10
            other worldly factors that take talent away
            ditto times 10
            ball
            bats
            ballparks
            armor
            helmet
            pine tar
            batting gloves
            nutrition
            weights
            strike zone
            hitters backdrops
            private jets
            injury prevention
            luxurious clubhouses
            etc
            etc
            etc


            We dont' want to get into context for 73, 70, 66, 65, and 64's sake.

            Comment


            • #21
              --Actually this poll is quite different for me than the other one. That one asks which record do you respect more. I picked Maris' 61 and commented that Ruth's 60 is actually still the most impressive to me (it wasn't a poll option). This one asks which is the benchmark. I voted Bonds' 73.
              --Ubi is correct in saying it is the record and the only number anybody is going to care about being broken. Do you really think there will be alot of fanfare if somebody hits 62 HR this year - or any year. It would be a great season, but nobody is going to be calling it a record.

              Comment


              • #22
                Bonds' 73 will sit high atop the mountain for all to see. His legacy sits in the limelight. Seems only fitting.

                Comment


                • #23
                  sultan: ditto
                  16 teams
                  ditto times 10
                  other worldly factors that take talent away
                  ditto times 10
                  ball
                  bats
                  ballparks
                  armor
                  helmet
                  pine tar
                  batting gloves
                  nutrition
                  weights
                  strike zone
                  hitters backdrops
                  private jets
                  injury prevention
                  luxurious clubhouses
                  etc
                  etc
                  etc


                  and yet your claim is that steroids alone enabled bonds to hit a homerun every 12+ swings.
                  please explain the discrepancy.
                  "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ubiquitous
                    In ten years or however long it takes when somebody approaches this level of homers in a season everybody is going to want to see him try for Bonds homer record. Who is going to say well he beat Maris' record so has it now, and when somebody does come along and take the record the headline is going to be Soandso break Bonds single season record.

                    50 years from now if no one breaks the record it will be Barry Bonds who is the single season home run champ and who has the number that must be beaten, not Maris. When Maris broke the record there was an uproar and I'm sure that a lot of people felt just like a lot of you guys, that Babe was the rightful record holder and that was how they were going to view it. Fast forward a decade and everyone for the most part has accepted Roger as the record holder.


                    The very last sentence is exactly why the context of records is so important.
                    Johnny
                    Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by west coast orange and black
                      sultan: ditto
                      16 teams
                      ditto times 10
                      other worldly factors that take talent away
                      ditto times 10
                      ball
                      bats
                      ballparks
                      armor
                      helmet
                      pine tar
                      batting gloves
                      nutrition
                      weights
                      strike zone
                      hitters backdrops
                      private jets
                      injury prevention
                      luxurious clubhouses
                      etc
                      etc
                      etc


                      and yet your claim is that steroids alone enabled bonds to hit a homerun every 12+ swings.
                      please explain the discrepancy.
                      Never said that. These factors are available to EVERYONE, and are a large reason why the game is hardly comparable as it is. What Bonds was taking was only available through BALCO, and when added to this long list; combined with his own talent, it led to it imo.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The homerun record belongs to bonds, period. I dont know or care how he got there. Ditto for maris, mcgwire, sosa, and ruth. A record is a record, it stands as it is. As of now, In the record book it states bonds hit 73 homeruns in 2001, as far as I know that's the most hit by a position player ever.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by johnny
                          [/COLOR]

                          The very last sentence is exactly why the context of records is so important.

                          Yes but context can remove any record. If we carefully look at everything, adjust for everything it could be that the guy who hit 8 in 1886 is the true single season home run champ. Which is why record books should be devoid of context. It should simply be a record of events. This player in this season hit the most homers in a season. This player had the most wins, so on and so on. If you want to make some timeline cutoffs thats fine by me.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            it may very well be that the 8 in 1886 is the most outstanding achievement... and exactly why ubi-man is correct with "record books should be devoid of context. It should simply be a record of events."
                            "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ubiquitous
                              Yes but context can remove any record. If we carefully look at everything, adjust for everything it could be that the guy who hit 8 in 1886 is the true single season home run champ. Which is why record books should be devoid of context. It should simply be a record of events. This player in this season hit the most homers in a season. This player had the most wins, so on and so on. If you want to make some timeline cutoffs thats fine by me.
                              Sure, but context should be used to enhance your understanding of a record. Home Run Baker knocking out 12 homers isn't very impressive until you understand the context of a dead ball era. Same with Gravy Cravath (sic) or whoever's record Babe broke.

                              So are we going to have a series of 'All Time Home Run Champs'?
                              Old School Aaron and New School Bonds?
                              Man, I hope we don't get to that point.
                              Johnny
                              Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                we've all given opinions on how these number sit with us, the changing times, the conditions. But I would assume that we can only come to one conclusion, Barry's number is the one that counts, thats the most, thats the record.

                                Comment

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