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Roger Clemens vs. Nolan Ryan?

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  • Roger Clemens vs. Nolan Ryan?

    Simple question - who was better?

    This actually started as a tangent discussion in a thread in the Red Sox forum, so I thought I'd remove it to here. I was surprised to see some Red Sox fans argue in favor of Ryan over Clemens.
    137
    Roger Clemens
    80.29%
    110
    Nolan Ryan
    19.71%
    27

  • #2
    I imagine this will be closer than Thomas vs. Gehrig, but it really shouldn't.
    THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

    In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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    • #3
      Originally posted by digglahhh
      I imagine this will be closer than Thomas vs. Gehrig, but it really shouldn't.
      I can think of legitimate arguments for Thomas over Gehrig (though I wouldn't agree with any of them). But there's no excuse on this one.
      "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

      Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

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      • #4
        I don't think Nolan would be as effective in todays game, as he was back then, because the high strike isn't called anymore. His 12-6 curve played nicely off his amazing heater to keep hitters' eye level changing. Today, hitters wouldn't need to respect his high fastball as much, which wouldn't make him as effective imo.

        Having said that, if there was a million bucks on the line for one AB to put the ball in play, I'd rather face Clemens.

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        • #5
          Something that doesn't seem to get mentioned much about Ryan is the fact that in addition to being the career strikeouts leader, he is the career leader in walks allowed, and leads that category by almost 1000 walks over the next guy (Steve Carlton). A rather dubious distinction, IMO.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DoubleX
            Something that doesn't seem to get mentioned much about Ryan is the fact that in addition to being the career strikeouts leader, he is the career leader in walks allowed, and leads that category by almost 1000 walks over the next guy (Steve Carlton). A rather dubious distinction, IMO.
            A testament to the way he pitched. He was a very wild pitcher, yet he was effective. Intimidation was his weapon. He was the Dale Earnhardt of baseball (the Intimidator). He's the greatest wild pitcher of all time.

            I gotta pick Clemens in this comparison, though. He's the total package. I imagine he'll run away with this poll, as many here on BBF rank him as the greatest pitcher ever. I have him #3. I believe I have Ryan in my lower top 20.
            Red, it took me 16 years to get here. Play me, and you'll get the best I got.

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            • #7
              Clemens beats him in pretty much every category except for strike outs

              and strike outs dont mean squat when you walk so many people too

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              • #8
                Clemens by a mile.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by digglahhh
                  I imagine this will be closer than Thomas vs. Gehrig, but it really shouldn't.
                  Is this poll a joke?

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                  • #10
                    You have to be kidding with this one right? Is this poll merely designed to find the sentimental idiots out there? Heck, I'm from southern Houston and can get to Alvin from here in less than fifteen minutes (Ryan lives in Alvin). My sister coached his daughter in volleyball. Moreover, Ryan is a lot more likeable than Clemens. Even considering all that, I would be bonkers to vote for him.
                    I am the author of "Checks and Imbalances" and "The State of Baseball Management."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                      Having said that, if there was a million bucks on the line for one AB to put the ball in play, I'd rather face Clemens.
                      Now if only that was the question
                      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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                      • #12
                        This is one of those polls that should lead to revocation of BBF posting privileges if you get it wrong.
                        Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by barzilla
                          You have to be kidding with this one right? Is this poll merely designed to find the sentimental idiots out there? Heck, I'm from southern Houston and can get to Alvin from here in less than fifteen minutes (Ryan lives in Alvin). My sister coached his daughter in volleyball. Moreover, Ryan is a lot more likeable than Clemens. Even considering all that, I would be bonkers to vote for him.
                          I tend to agree, sadly. So I respectfully abstain.
                          http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ex...eline_1961.jpg

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DoubleX
                            Simple question - who was better?

                            This actually started as a tangent discussion in a thread in the Red Sox forum, so I thought I'd remove it to here. I was surprised to see some Red Sox fans argue in favor of Ryan over Clemens.
                            As big a Nolan fan as I am, I have to say Roger has been the better pitcher.
                            1968 and 1984, the greatest ever.

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                            • #15
                              To reframe this discussion away from the simplicity of a "who's better" vote, the original discussion was whether or not Clemens vs. Nolan Ryan was, as DoubleX put it, "a matter of night and day."

                              At no point did I ever try to argue that Ryan was a better pitcher than Clemens, only that trying to claim that Ryan was nowhere near Clemens' class was an unjust underestimation of his achievements and contributions. I mean we're not comparing Mike Stanley and Clemens here. In fact, the roster of Cy Young winners is filled with names of one-hit wonders who were nowhere near Ryan's class, let alone Clemens. As we approach the summit of baseball's best, the air gets rarified and the numbers are huge. Ryan holds all kinds of distinctions that Clemens never will, which does not have to take away from Roger's legacy anymore than Roger should detract from Ryan's.

                              I understand that XX considers Ryan "the most overrated pitcher of all time," and therefore might take it as a personal crusade to see to it that others feel the same way; but in the end, most of the discussion will always be purely academic. I truly became a baseball fan when Clemens was the Red Sox ace and never forgave Duquette for giving up on him. That said, I still bear a grudge that it took that kind of a dope slap to get the Rocket to start producing to his full potential again. I just don't think it's fair to Nolan Ryan to suggest that he isn't fit to polish Clemens' cleats.

                              2007 World Series Champions
                              The Boston Red Sox

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