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*MVP Award Discussion Thread*

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  • #31
    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
    C'mon, some would have seen Collins OR Lajoie OR Doerr OR Gehringer OR Frisch OR Herman OR ...
    Gordon was better than all of those guys. He just had a shorter career. I think Williams did deserve the MVP in '42, but it has been made into a much worse selection than it really was. Gordon did have an okay case. I could see how someone could vote for him, especially considering the Yankees did win the pennant and beat out the Red Sox.

    The selection that doesn't get as much attention as it should is Marty Marion over Stan Musial in 1944. Either that or Dawson in '87 is the worst MVP selection ever.

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    • #32
      --Hank Saur was a worse pick than Dawson. Marion is a real head scratcher though.

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      • #33
        Ashburn deserved it in 58

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        • #34
          Originally posted by RuthMayBond
          C'mon, some would have seen Collins OR Lajoie OR Doerr OR Gehringer OR Frisch OR Herman OR ...
          Normally I wouldn't be sticking up for Gordon, because he's the antithesis of my kind of player, but he really was a very nice player. One of the very few Yankees who played on WS champs and has been consistently underrated (only other one I'm coming up with is Bernie Williams).
          "Simply put, the passion, interest and tradition surrounding baseball in New York is unmatched."

          Sean McAdam, ESPN.com

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          • #35
            Originally posted by 538280
            Gordon was better than all of those guys. He just had a shorter career. I think Williams did deserve the MVP in '42, but it has been made into a much worse selection than it really was. Gordon did have an okay case. I could see how someone could vote for him, especially considering the Yankees did win the pennant and beat out the Red Sox.

            The selection that doesn't get as much attention as it should is Marty Marion over Stan Musial in 1944. Either that or Dawson in '87 is the worst MVP selection ever.
            Come on now how much do you really know about Gordon? It happened 64 years ago, barely any visual records of Gordon, I seriously doubt any books still in publication that contain a lot of info on Gordon, and yet you are able to confidently say that he was better then Collins, Lajoie, Doerr, Gehringer, Frisch, and Herman. What kind of fielder was he? Was he fluid, was he quick? How did he do on the pivot? HOw about pop flies? Was his movements jerky or smooth? Was he a stocky guy, well built, skinny? How was his arm, his footwork. Did he play by feel or was he analytical in his approach?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Ubiquitous
              Come on now how much do you really know about Gordon? It happened 64 years ago, barely any visual records of Gordon, I seriously doubt any books still in publication that contain a lot of info on Gordon, and yet you are able to confidently say that he was better then Collins, Lajoie, Doerr, Gehringer, Frisch, and Herman. What kind of fielder was he? Was he fluid, was he quick? How did he do on the pivot? HOw about pop flies? Was his movements jerky or smooth? Was he a stocky guy, well built, skinny? How was his arm, his footwork. Did he play by feel or was he analytical in his approach?
              not that i agree with his point, but you really think 64 years is a long time? remember that baseball was already broadcast on television 3 years prior to Gordon winning the MVP

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Ubiquitous
                Come on now how much do you really know about Gordon? It happened 64 years ago, barely any visual records of Gordon, I seriously doubt any books still in publication that contain a lot of info on Gordon, and yet you are able to confidently say that he was better then Collins, Lajoie, Doerr, Gehringer, Frisch, and Herman. What kind of fielder was he? Was he fluid, was he quick? How did he do on the pivot? HOw about pop flies? Was his movements jerky or smooth? Was he a stocky guy, well built, skinny? How was his arm, his footwork. Did he play by feel or was he analytical in his approach?
                I never saw Gordon play, obviously, and I admit I don't know the intracacies of his play or his fielding. I do know he was reputed to be the best 2Bman of his time, one of the best ever up to that point, and he has done very well (better than most of those guys) with most defensive metrics I've seen.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by 538280
                  Gordon was better than all of those guys.
                  Gordon better than Collins AND Lajoie? That would make a great poll, don't bet your house
                  Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                  Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by yest
                    Ashburn deserved it in 58
                    Over Aaron, Mays AND Spahn?
                    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 538280
                      I never saw Gordon play, obviously, and I admit I don't know the intracacies of his play or his fielding. I do know he was reputed to be the best 2Bman of his time, one of the best ever up to that point, and he has done very well (better than most of those guys) with most defensive metrics I've seen.
                      Which metrics have you seen?
                      Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                      Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        To bring it back to the original subject, I started a thread a few months ago about the best players to never win the MVP.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by blackout805
                          not that i agree with his point, but you really think 64 years is a long time? remember that baseball was already broadcast on television 3 years prior to Gordon winning the MVP

                          Yes I think 64 years is a really long time, don't you? Do you have copies of games from 64 years ago on videotape? Can you say pop in a game from May 2nd 1941 into your DVD/VCR and watch it?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 538280
                            I never saw Gordon play, obviously, and I admit I don't know the intracacies of his play or his fielding. I do know he was reputed to be the best 2Bman of his time, one of the best ever up to that point, and he has done very well (better than most of those guys) with most defensive metrics I've seen.

                            And why does he do better?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by blackout805
                              not that i agree with his point, but you really think 64 years is a long time? remember that baseball was already broadcast on television 3 years prior to Gordon winning the MVP
                              How many TV sets do you think were actually in homes, with what programs?
                              Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
                              Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ElHalo
                                I think you're missing out on the reasons why Gordon won that MVP. It wasn't so much for his numbers (which were fantastic) as it was for his defense... he was the best defensive second baseman anyone living had ever seen ...
                                I know Gordon was a smooth and flashy second-baseman -- but if he was so great, why has he never been voted to the Hall of Fame?

                                In 1942, Ted had an incredible hitting year:
                                186 hits, 36 HR, 137 RBI, .356 BA, .499 OBP and .634 SA. Led AL in HR, RBI, BA, OBP and Slg. Pct. (Triple Crown year!)

                                In 1942 Gordon had:
                                173 hits, 18 HR, 103 RBI, .322 BA, .409 OBP and .491 Slg. Pct.
                                A nice year. His only season to hit over .285. But how do these numbers beat out Williams?

                                If Gordon was so great, why has he not been voted to the Hall of Fame?
                                IMO Gordon should be in the Hall of Fame (ahead of Bobby Doerr, who played at the same time) -- but not MVP in Ted's first Triple Crown season!
                                Last edited by Appling; 03-17-2006, 10:11 AM.
                                Luke

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