Originally posted by Bill Burgess
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Joe Jackson Thread
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I'm not sure about the ROY rules and who qualifies as a "rookie." Joe played 5 games in each '08 and '09 then 20 in '10.
1911 - .408/.468 [LL]/.590, 193 OPS+, 233 H, 45 doubles, 19 triples, 7 HR, 83 RBI, 41 SB, 126 R in 147 games.
Outdone by only Cobb in BA/SLG, OPS+ H, doubles.
I'm not sure if it qualifies as a "rookie" season. If it does then it is surely one of if not the best ever."No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”
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Originally posted by bluesky5 View PostI'm not sure about the ROY rules and who qualifies as a "rookie." Joe played 5 games in each '08 and '09 then 20 in '10.
1911 - .408/.468 [LL]/.590, 193 OPS+, 233 H, 45 doubles, 19 triples, 7 HR, 83 RBI, 41 SB, 126 R in 147 games.
Outdone by only Cobb in BA/SLG, OPS+ H, doubles.
I'm not sure if it qualifies as a "rookie" season. If it does then it is surely one of if not the best ever.Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!
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Two of the 'rookie seasons' that may never be exceeded are Joe Jackson's 1911 season, and also Pete Alexander's 1911 season. What are the odds of that happening in the same seaaon?
The only objection is the technical issue of whether or not Jackson's previous smattering of games constituted 'a season'. Playing 20 games in 1910 hardly qualifies as 'a season'.Last edited by Bill Burgess; 12-18-2012, 11:26 AM.
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I always heard 1911 was his rookie season. Wouldn't the rules back then be the same as today for rookie of year?"(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack
"I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)
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According to MLB.com:
A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).
I wouldn't be surprised if what Macker said was the common interpretation of the times."No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”
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Originally posted by Macker View PostYou're joking, right? You need to keep in mind there were no rookie awards at the time, so there was no reason to have official criteria for being a rookie.Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!
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Originally posted by EdTarbusz View PostWhy would today's standards apply to 1911?
Not sure when that was implemented, but let's just say it was 1950. Once it went into effect, wouldn't that make Jackson's official rookie year 1911?Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!
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Originally posted by White Knight View Post"In order to qualify as a rookie in Major League Baseball, a player has to have had fewer than 130 at bats or 50 innings pitched in the majors, or 45 days on the active rosters of major league clubs (excluding time on the disabled list or any time after rosters are expanded on September 1), in their previous seasons."
Not sure when that was implemented, but let's just say it was 1950. Once it went into effect, wouldn't that make Jackson's official rookie year 1911?My top 10 players:
1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ty Cobb
4. Ted Williams
5. Willie Mays
6. Alex Rodriguez
7. Hank Aaron
8. Honus Wagner
9. Lou Gehrig
10. Mickey Mantle
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His rookie year is never mentioned with the greatest of all-time. Despite the fact that it may very well be."No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”
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