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  • #31
    Originally posted by White Knight View Post
    No. I was replying to your second part. You said "anyone having appeared in a previous season was not a rookie." We can use today's standards to apply, can't we?
    The problem was that I said 'generally' when referring to the era Jackson played WHEN he played. You made a statement on what was true, and you are wrong. We can use today's standards, but when we apply rules to eras that didn't have them, we normally apply the first iteration of the rule, not the current rule. For example, qualifications for a save have changed a few times. For those years prior to any rules governing the awarding of saves, we don't apply today's rule; we apply the first save rule that went on the books. It really doesn't matter, because while Firpo Marberry had seasons in which he has retroactively been awarded the most saves, he never 'officially' led the league in saves. Anyone can make lists with any criteria they want, but the encyclopedias apply the first rule, not the current rule. While Joe Jackson's first full season was 1911, very few, if any, considered him to be a rookie at that time.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by White Knight View Post
      I'd like to see the what the Trout lovers have to say about this. Seriously, those guys who worship his 2012 are so annoying.
      Who worships Mike Tout's 2012 season? Oh..wait...:hyper:

      Mike Trout SI Cover 1.jpg

      Mike Trout ESPN the Mag.jpg
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Macker View Post
        The problem was that I said 'generally' when referring to the era Jackson played WHEN he played. You made a statement on what was true, and you are wrong. We can use today's standards, but when we apply rules to eras that didn't have them, we normally apply the first iteration of the rule, not the current rule. For example, qualifications for a save have changed a few times. For those years prior to any rules governing the awarding of saves, we don't apply today's rule; we apply the first save rule that went on the books. It really doesn't matter, because while Firpo Marberry had seasons in which he has retroactively been awarded the most saves, he never 'officially' led the league in saves. Anyone can make lists with any criteria they want, but the encyclopedias apply the first rule, not the current rule. While Joe Jackson's first full season was 1911, very few, if any, considered him to be a rookie at that time.
        At the time, that's correct. But I believe he's now considered an official rookie in 1911. It's all gray area though.
        Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

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        • #34
          It's been established for years that Joe Jackson was "illiterate". Why he completely illiterate or functionally illiterate?
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

          Comment


          • #35
            joes_story_header_2.jpg

            shoeless-joe-jackson-shoes.jpg

            e901_jackson.jpg
            "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

            Comment


            • #36
              I don't understand the hate for Mike Trout. Does anyone really dispute that he had a historic season for a 20 year old rookie? If it wasn't the best ever, it was at least top 3.
              My top 10 players:

              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Barry Bonds
              3. Ty Cobb
              4. Ted Williams
              5. Willie Mays
              6. Alex Rodriguez
              7. Hank Aaron
              8. Honus Wagner
              9. Lou Gehrig
              10. Mickey Mantle

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                I don't understand the hate for Mike Trout. Does anyone really dispute that he had a historic season for a 20 year old rookie? If it wasn't the best ever, it was at least top 3.
                Undoubtedly, if any season challenges Jackson's it is his. I think Trouts was better. Don't wanna get too deep into the debate though. It's Joe's thread after all.
                "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                Comment


                • #38
                  From: http://www.shoelessjoejackson.com

                  Hometown tribute for Shoeless Joe
                  07/18/05

                  The Greenville Bombers honored Greenville, South Carolina native son "Shoeless" Joe Jackson on Saturday, July 16 in memoriam of the 117th anniversary of the baseball legend's birth. The evening included many festivities, as hordes of fans came out for the celebration/baseball game against the Columbus Catfish.

                  "I've always been a Shoeless Joe Jackson fan. It's nice to be able to come to the park and honor a hometown guy who was one of the greatest baseball players ever. I'm just happy to have the chance to experience it with my kids", said Jonathan Patterson, who was accompanied by his six-year-old daughter and eight-year-old son.

                  More than 70 members of Jackson's own family came out for the game and celebration. Surely they were able to see the lasting impact their relative had on the city of Greenville and the sport of baseball as a whole. A plethora of activities, souvenirs and fond memories filled Municipal Stadium that Saturday night, all contributing to the memory of a timeless hero of the baseball diamond.

                  Among the many enthralling items making the celebratory night were T-shirts, free birthday cake, exhibits from the "Shoeless" Joe Jackson Virtual Hall of Fame (www.blackbetsy.com) and Greenville's City Hall Joe Jackson collection. The most coveted piece of memorabilia from the night was a "Shoeless" Joe Jackson bobblehead doll dressed in a historic Brandon Mill uniform with stocking feet. The collector's item was given out to the first 1,000 fans in attendance and was sponsored by Southeastern Products, the company that sponsored the rest of the commemorative events that evening as well.

                  "Joe Jackson is perhaps the most famous citizen to come out of Greenville", remarked John Burgess, president of Southeastern Products. "We are proud to sponsor the events [that were] on Saturday and I think it is important to do events like these in order to carry on his legacy".
                  "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Post from Nimrod in Black Sox thread:

                    Originally posted by Nimrod View Post
                    Shoeless Joe`s address in Greenville,SC was at 119 East Wilburn not Wilborn as the author states.Back in 2006 the home was moved to it`s present address of 356(Joe`s lifetime BA) Field Street where it is now the Joe Jackson Museum.You can go to Google map and type in that East Wilburn address and see that it is an empty lot located on a very pleasant looking street and the Oak sapling is now very large.117872[/ATTACH]
                    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Joe`s final home and where he died in his sleep on December 5,1951.Now a museum.117894[/ATTACH]
                      Attached Files

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                      • #41
                        Joe Jackson page on http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...e=gr&GRid=1743

                        jacksonjoseph.jpg

                        jacksonjoseph2.jpg
                        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                          It's been established for years that Joe Jackson was "illiterate". Why he completely illiterate or functionally illiterate?
                          According to the SABR biography by David Fleitz, Joe started work at the Brandon Mill textile factory at 6 or 7 years of age and never attended school.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I particularly like pictures of Jackson with the Athletics.

                            1909jjathletics1.jpg

                            Joe is on the viewers right.

                            phillyjoe.jpg

                            Joe is fourth from the left in the third row.

                            ateam.jpg
                            Last edited by bluesky5; 12-28-2012, 05:53 PM.
                            "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Joe getting hitched. Article follows courtesy of the Greenville News via blackbetsy.com

                              joe-katie-wedding-day-large.jpg

                              Joe Jackson, The popular center fielder of the local team
                              made the greatest home run of his career on Sunday. The
                              home run was made on Cupid's diamond and the victory was a
                              fair young lady. On Sunday afternoon at 4:30 o'clock Joe was
                              married to Miss Kate Wynn, The Rev. W.B. Justis Officiating.
                              The happy couple have the best wishes of all fandom.
                              Last edited by bluesky5; 12-28-2012, 08:08 PM.
                              "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Jackson may have a case for best first and last season in a single career.
                                "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                                Comment

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