Jim Edmonds vs. Andruw Jones (As all-around players)

[GiambiJuice]

I think most people would agree that Jones is the better Fielder and Edmonds is the better hitter.

My question is as all-around players, whom would you rather have on your team in his prime?

Also, who do you think will make a better case for Cooperstown?

[Bothrops Atrox]

I think most people would agree that Jones is the better Fielder and Edmonds is the better hitter.

My question is as all-around players, whom would you rather have on your team in his prime?

Also, who do you think will make a better case for Cooperstown?

To this point, I think Edmonds has had the better all-around career. Hid OB% and Slugging% are far superior to Jones. At least enough so to counteract Jones' lead on defense. However, Edmonds is beginning the decline phase of his career, and Jones appears to be in his peak. Jones has a far better chance to reach Cooperstown than Edmonds, who has very little chance.

[DoubleX]

If Jones continues to put up numbers similar to last year, he'll have something else going for him over Edmonds - doing it in the post-steroids era. I think Edmonds power numbers could get obscured by the steroids-era, while Jones' will stand out better in the post-steroids era (again assuming he can continue like last year for a few more years).

[FatAngel]

The next few years will decide if Jones has a chance to make the Hall. Players with this body type tend to decline very quickly in their early 30´s. In my opinion, even now he´s clearly overweight, compensating by having a quite young body.

[digglahhh]

Fat Angels opinion seems to be substantiated by the fact that Jones has, at least by most defensive metrics, come back to earth over the past two seasons. Still excellent, but not all-timey as he was previously.

[csh19792001]

If Jones continues to put up numbers similar to last year, he'll have something else going for him over Edmonds - doing it in the post-steroids era.

I'd love to be right with you about this transition, but honestly, what makes you believe that we're entering the post steroids era? What has changed since 2003 to lead you to think that steroid/PED use has been (or is) drastically decreasing? I don't even think homers/offense has dropped off much at all, overall, but I could be wrong. What other evidence is there/would there be?

How many substances are on the current MLB banned list? I know HgH, one of the most potent (and common anabolics on the black market) is not, and I'm sure there are dozens (if not hundreds) with similarly powerful effects that aren't included.

Do we valid reason to believe that they've caught more than a tiny fraction of those who are using? How many players have been caught total, since the inception of testing- 12? Out of 750 each year, how many people do you suspect the current policy is actually apprehending?

I'm not being purposefully captious at all; I'd really like to know, and I still think the testing policy is pretty much a joke that is still mostly ineffectual and something baseball is propping up to quell the riot and say "Ok, look, we're doing something, call off the watch dogs!!"

I'd love to think that there even will be a "post steroid" era.

[85cards]

I wouldn't pick one over the other because an A-Class fly catcher in CF is so crucial to winning teams (witness the Cards and Braves since both players joined their teams). They are both superb, although I agree Jimmy has slipped a tad since 2004.

Having watched Edmonds almost every single game since 2000, I will say that I have never seen a more natural OFer in person. He has a feel for the whole field and his fellow OFers, and gets such an incredible jump on the ball that I have to put him in the Curt Flood, Willie Mays class as far as defense. Yes, he showboats and likes to play up every out like he's either injured or exhausted but he also makes the impossible plays.

Not seeing Andruw every day I will let people who have seen him comment on his defense.

[barzilla]

I would agree that they are at different points in their careers, so it would depend on where Jones ends up. I also agree that Edmonds will get obscured by the era. He really shouldn't because he is a good all-around player. Personally, I prefer Edmonds because I hated to see him come up against my Astros a lot more than I hate to see Jones come up. Jones has weaknesses that can be exploited while Edmonds in his prime 2000-2004 could flat out hit.

[85cards]

I would agree that they are at different points in their careers, so it would depend on where Jones ends up. I also agree that Edmonds will get obscured by the era. He really shouldn't because he is a good all-around player. Personally, I prefer Edmonds because I hated to see him come up against my Astros a lot more than I hate to see Jones come up. Jones has weaknesses that can be exploited while Edmonds in his prime 2000-2004 could flat out hit.

Yes, for some reason Edmonds used to murder your Stros, especially early in the season at Minute Maid. He's not so hard on them now and that was especially clear during the 2005 NLCS.

[538280]

I like Edmonds the hitter by a LOT, though Jones is very good. I like Jones the fielder by a LOT, though Edmonds is very good.

Overall, in their peak I'm inclined to go with Edmonds, because hitting is more important than fielding. I've seen both play, and must say I'm more impressed by Jones. But, Edmonds has more value to his team, and I have to with him as a player

But, I may be underestimating Jones' fielding skill. Pretty much every metric I've seen calls him the best ever per inning by far.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Andruw has pretty much coasted his entire career, cruising through it on natural ability. Maybe hitting 2 World Series homers as a 19 year old in Yankee Stadium will do that, but he's another case of someone who I'd love to put Ty Cobb's drive and determination into.

Last year he made a change in his batting stance, widening it up and eliminating the stride, so he was able to wait back a little longer on pitches. It helped his plate discipline a little but he still needs to be more selective. I think how he approaches the next 5 seasons are gonna make or break his legacy to a degree. Hard to believe he still only 28. I'd take him over Edmonds any day, although Edmonds is a solid fielder, I'm not a big fan of his style of hitting.

[Chisox]

I know I'm in the vast minority in this, but I think Edmonds is FAR superior to Jones as an all-around player and I would put him in the HOF if his career ended today. Edmonds has put up offensive numbers VERY similar to Duke Snider's (% and seasonal wise), while until 2005, Jones's similarities were with Mike Cameron's/Cliff Floyd's prime. Edmond's is % wise historically one of the best in the history of the game, while Jones' is above average only because of his power, which makes him far above average, but not anywhere near historic.

[Blackout]

I'll take Jim Edmonds

[Honus Wagner Rules]

We had a Jim Edmonds discussion about a year ago. Enjoy.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=25338

[jpenrod]

I don't know, my problem is you are comparing a guy that has played through his prime to a guy that is just now entering his prime. I realize that Jones has been around for 10 years, but he is still only 28. Edmonds probably has a couple of more good years left in him at which point he could retire with 1400 Runs, 2200 hits, 450 HR, 1300 RBI. Jones could continue to play for another 10 years at which point he could feasibly retire with 1800 R, 2900 Hits, 650 HR, 1900 RBI. As a career I think it is really almost a know brainer. Everyone talks about Edmonds higher BA and OBP, but over his career that has averaged to 8 more hits a season and 14 more runs per season, the difference being that Jones averages 40 more games a year. I realize that the averages are slightly skewed to to Edmonds injuries, but that has to be considered when comparing these players. Just for comparisons sake I have projected Jones numbers after 13 seasonsassuming he continues to produce an "average" year for the next three years:

Player	Seasons	Age	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO
Jones	13	31	1886	7035	1140	1879	367	44	403	1194	171	70	754	1507
Edmonds	13	35	1587	5557	1063	1619	362	21	331	998	59	46	825	1411

When I look at those numbers I just do not see how Edmonds is a much better player than Jones. I will take Jones and his nonchalant attitude anyday. At least I KNOW he is going out there EVERYDAY and he is going to produce 30 HR, 90-100 R, and 95-100 RBI.