The Most Underrated/Overrated player ever?

[PumpsieGreen]

I have forever believed that Stan Musial is the most underrated player ever. This guy is one of the top ten players of all time, right there with Ted Williams in my book, yet he still goes too unnoticed. In that 1999 All-Century Team, he wasn't picked. Of course, I suppose that doesn't mean much. What scares me more is that, in a recent thread, a poster claimed that Musial wasn't even one of the top three Cardinals in Missouri! He, in these eyes, is the greatest Cardinal ever, even superior to Rogers Hornsby(not by a lot though.)

I'm not quite sure who the most overrated player of all time is, but my question to you is, who are the most overrated and underrated players of all time?

[janduscframe]

I

would think that many of those who had careers during World War Two would have to be considered. Musial, Feller,Williams etc....One can only speculate what kind of numbers some of these fellows may have put up during the one -three years missed.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I'd have to pick Nolan Ryan as the most overrated player of all-time, based on the perception of many of the genral public that he's the greatest pitcher of all-time. Ryan's HOF induction was well-deserved, and he is a great ambassador of the sport, but his acclaim supercedes his career.

As for underrated, I don't connect being undervalued through time as underrated, which means I can't pick any well-regarded HOF player for this. Musial, Spahn, etc. were well-recognized during their day, and because Joe Fan can't tell you who they are 40+ years after they played ther last game doesn't make them underrated to me. Underappreciated, yes, but you can't expect everyone to be a historian. The All-Century team is not an indicator of reality.

Without researching further back, I'd pick Vada Pinson as the most underrated player of all-time. He put up some big numbers trapped in a number of shadows.

[Captain Cold Nose]

would think that many of those who had careers during World War Two would have to be considered. Musial, Feller,Williams etc....One can only speculate what kind of numbers some of these fellows may have put up during the one -three years missed.

How does that make them underrated? Ted Williams?

[PumpsieGreen]

I agree that Ryan is highly overrated as well, Captain Cold Nose. He had this cool, fan-loving swagger about him, but really, his career doesn't match up. He isn't one of the top 20 greatest starting pitchers of all time, although some people are led to believe that he's one of the top ten.

I think Reggie Jackson can tend to be overrated, as well. Everyone remembers his 3 home run playoff game, his brashness, and his powerful bat, but he is the all time leader in strikeouts, and his batting average surely doesn't hold up.

Pumpsie

[shlevine42]

Underrated?

Jackie Robinson.

A superb fielder, able to play several positions.
A dangerous hitter with decent power, who was at his best in the clutch.
A dazzling base runner.
Capable of using any or all of those skills to completely dominate a game.
A ferocious competitor who simply would not let his team lose.

It's sad -- and wrong -- that he's almost never mentioned among the all-time greats because his role as a pioneer has obscured his extraordinary talents as a player.

[PumpsieGreen]

I agree, shlevine. Robinson was a great player, one of the five greatest second basemen ever in my opinion, who gets passed up and unnoticed too often.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Underrated?

Jackie Robinson.


It's sad -- and wrong -- that he's almost never mentioned among the all-time greats because his role as a pioneer has obscured his extraordinary talents as a player.

I agree 100% with this statement. Robinson's ability to dominate a game with all he brought to the sport makes him a truly unique player. One thing that has hurt his perception as a player is many of his Negro League contempoaries have stated there were far better players in the Negro Leagues than Robinson. While that may be true, Robinson excelled under the most adverse of circumstances.

[janduscframe]

I see your point.

I was trying to point out that some of these all time greats COULD have been considered even greater if not for missing a few years during the war.

[ElHalo]

Overrated? Easy, Mike Schmidt. A role player who somehow gets accorded all time great status because of the weakness of his competition... same goes for Pete Rose and Joe Morgan.

Underrated? I've always said Hornsby, because your average Joe Schmoe fan out there doesn't even get a glimmer of recognition in his eye when you mention his name... most baseball fans I've met have never, and I mean not even once, heard the guy's name. If that doesn't say underrated, I don't know what does.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Overrated? Easy, Mike Schmidt. A role player who somehow gets accorded all time great status because of the weakness of his competition... same goes for Pete Rose and Joe Morgan.

Underrated? I've always said Hornsby, because your average Joe Schmoe fan out there doesn't even get a glimmer of recognition in his eye when you mention his name... most baseball fans I've met have never, and I mean not even once, heard the guy's name. If that doesn't say underrated, I don't know what does.

At the least, people have heard of him because of A League of Their Own, where he's mentioned in Tom Hanks's "No Crying in Baseball" speech.
When the "experts" put together list of all-time greats, Hornsby is mentioned. I just don't see how a person who only goes to a game for some entertainment with the family not knowing a player whose career ended twenty years before they were even born is expected to know or care who that is.
What Joe Schmoe Family Guy does or does not know shouldn't be the gauge of who is underrated, to me.
Rose is overrated. Not to take anything away from him as a hustling player with big numbers, but when Cincinnati radio heads shout out how Hank Aaron and Bob Feller (who arguments can be made abut being overrated and underrated) have no right to question Rose's integrity because they're not the all-time hits leader is ridiculous. No player, ever, or even person, is too big to be questioned.
Schmidt was the best of a weak era. In terms of history, he might get looked at a bit more closely than he deserves. Very possibly the greatest third baseman of all time, but third base is historically one of the weakest positions.
Morgan is like Scmidt in this matter, excpet second basemen are better at the very top than third basemen.

I'd like to know what exactly your definition of role player is. For me, there isn't much difference between role player and utility player. In a sense, every player is a role player. But some roles are far bigger than others.

[dgarza]

Avg Joe probably doen't even know any of the early pitching greats either.

[baclightning]

Underrated, HOF division: Stan Musial, Eddie Collins, Martin Dihigo, Hank Greenberg.

Underrated, non-HOF division: Joe Gordon, Ted Simmons, Vern Stephens, Tim Raines.

Overrated: Nolan Ryan, Thurman Munson, Pie Traynor .

(The last one named is a joke, referring to a recent thread, before anyone flames me!)

[julusnc]

Overrated -
Nolan Ryan (Great pitcher but not the greatest)

Cal Ripken (Good player that never missed a day of school - would have been a much better player and team leader if he had rested up every once in awhile)

Joe DiMaggio (Great player but he was never the greatest)

Underrated -

Jimmie Foxx (One of the greatest hitters of all-time and just because he played in an era of greats they forget about him)

Juan Marichal (He was as good as Koufax for about twice as long)

Warren Spahn (He was simply amazing and people forget just how amazing)

[PumpsieGreen]

Great choices, baclightening. Collins is, in my opinion, the second greatest second baseman ever, and Greenberg is the third, and yet they still fail to get noticed too much, although I think the appreciation of Greenberg has been growing. I think both Simmons and Raines should make the hall one day, although Simmons is overshadowed by Johnny Bench, and Raines seemed to be overshadowed by Rickey Henderson.

Julusnc,
Couldn't agree more with you, particularly about Marichal, in my opinion the greatest pitcher of the entire 1960s.