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9th Greatest Pitcher

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  • 9th Greatest Pitcher

    Congratulations to Roger Clemens for winning our 8th Greatest Pitcher Poll! He scored 65 points from our 20 voters, including 9 first place votes. Randy Johnson scored 46 points for second place, including 2 first place votes.

    Randy just edged Warren Spahn, who received 45 points, and Satchel Paige with 44 points. Warren got 2 first place votes, and Satchel 3.

    The 9th round for Greatest Pitcher series is now open. Round 9 will end when we recieve 20 ballots, however long that takes us.

    1. Walter Johnson
    2. Greg Maddux
    3. Cy Young
    4. Lefty Grove
    5. Pete Alexander
    6. Christy Mathewson
    7. Tom Seaver
    8. Roger Clemens
    9.

    As per our usual, please consider everything. Counting totals, rate stats, relative stats, peak, longevity, special skills, awards/opinions, intangibles, team support/lack of support, special circumstances, time missed for war/injuries, etc.

    We are now ONLY voting for the 9th Greatest. Please submit your ballot with your next Top 5 Pitchers. As the winner of Round 8, Roger Clemens is now eliminated from further consideration. Negro Leaguers are eligible.
    Code:
    Here is how Round 1 broke down.---31 voters
    
    -----Johnson------Maddux--Matty-Alexander-Young---Grove---Clemens--Nichols-Spahn-Feller-Koufax-Seaver-Martinez-Rivera-N.Ryan
    1.----110 pts(22)---25(5)------0-----0-------5(1)-----10(2)-----0--------0-----0------5(1)-----0----0-------0-------0------0
    2. ---24(6)---------24(6)---16(4)---4(1)----12(3)-----28(7)----8(2)-------0-----0-------0----4(1)----0-------0-------0------0 
    3.-----6(2)---------15(5)----3(1)--18(6)-----9(3)-----18(6)-----0-------3(1)---6(2)-----0------0-----0-------0-------0-----6(2)
    4. -----2(1)--------10(5)----2(1)--10(5)----16(8)------8(4)----10(5)------0-----0-------0-----2(1)---0-------0-------0------0
    5.------0------------4(4)----1(1)---6(6)-----4(4)------4(4)------0--------0----1(1)----1(1)---2(2)--1(1)----1(1)-----2(2)----0
    Totals-142-----------78-------22----38-------46-------68-------18-------3-----7-------6-------8----1-------1-------2------6
    
    1. Walter Johnson - 142 (22)
    2. Greg Maddux - 78 (5)
    3. Lefty Grove - 68 (2)
    4. Cy Young - 46 (1)
    4. Pete Alexander - 38
    6. Christy Mathewson - 22
    7. Roger Clemens - 18
    8. Sandy Koufax - 8
    9. Warren Spahn - 7
    9. Bob Feller - 6 (1)
    11. Nolan Ryan - 6
    11. Kid Nichols - 3
    12. Mariano Rivera - 2
    13. Tom Seaver - 1
    13. Pedro Martinez - 1
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is how Round 2 broke down.---24 voters
    
    1. Greg Maddux - 78(11)
    2. Lefty Grove - 71(7)
    3. Cy Young - 58(2)
    4. Pete Alexander - 46(1)
    5. Christy Mathewson - 31(2)
    6. Roger Clemens - 20(1)
    7. Warren Spahn - 9
    8. Nolan Ryan - 7
    9. Bob Feller - 5
    9. Tom Seaver - 5
    9. Randy Johnson - 5 
    12. Pedro Martinez - 4
    13. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Mariano Rivera - 3
    15. Satchel Paige - 2
    16. Smokey Joe Williams - 1
    16. Kid Nichols - 1
    16. Curt Schilling - 1
    ------------------------------
    Fine Breakdown: Round 2:
    ------------------------------1st-----2nd-----3rd-----4th-----5th
    1. Greg Maddux--------------55(11)--20(5)----3(1)----0--------0
    2. Lefty Grove --------------35(7)---12(3)----18(6)---4(2)-----2(2)
    3. Cy Young-----------------10(2)---16(4)----18(6)--12(6)----2(2)
    4. Pete Alexander--------------5(1)--20(5)----12(4)---4(2)----5(5)
    5. Christy Mathewson----------10(2)-8(2)------6(2)---4(2)----3(3)
    6. Roger Clemens---------------5(1)--8(2)-----3(1)----2(1)---2(2)
    7. Warren Spahn-----------------0---4(1)-----3(1)-----0-----2(1) 
    8. Nolan Ryan--------------------0---4(1)------0------2(1)---1(1)
    9. Bob Feller---------------------0-----0-------0------4(2)---1(1)
    9. Tom Seaver-------------------0-----0-------3(1)--2(1)-----0 
    9. Randy Johnson----------------0-----0-------3(1)--2(1)-----0  
    12. Pedro Martinez---------------0----4(1)------0-----0-------0
    13. Bob Gibson-------------------0-----0-------0-----2(1)----1(1)
    13. Mariano Rivera---------------0------0------0-----2(1)-----1(1)
    15. Satchel Paige----------------0------0------0-----2(1)------0 
    16. Smokey Joe Williams----------0------0------0------0-------1(1)
    16. Kid Nichols-------------------0------0------0------0-------1(1) 
    16. Curt Schilling-----------------0------0------0------0-------1(1)
    
    Round 3:---19 voters
    
    1. Cy Young - 66(5)
    2. Lefty Grove - 57(5)
    3. Pete Alexander - 54(3)
    4. Christy Mathewson - 40
    5. Tom Seaver - 28(1)
    6. Roger Clemens - 18(2)
    7. Randy Johnson - 13(1)
    8. Satchel Paige - 8
    9. Bob Feller - 5
    9. Mariano Rivera - 5
    11. Warren Spahn - 4
    11. Nolan Ryan - 4
    13. Sandy Koufax - 3
    14.  Steve Carlton- 2
    14. Bob Gibson - 2
    16. Curt Schilling - 1
    16. Pedro Martinez - 1
    16. Rube Foster - 1
    
    Here's the breakdown.
    
    -----------------------1st------2nd-----3rd------4th------5th
    1. Cy Young----------25(5)-----20(5)----15(5)----6(3)------0
    2. Lefty Grove--------25(5)-----24(6)-----3(1)----4(2)------1(1)
    3. Pete Alexander-----15(3)-----16(4)----18(6)----4(2)------1(1)
    4. Christy Mathewson-10(2)-----16(4)-----3(1)----8(4)------3(3)
    5. Tom Seaver--------5(1)------4(1)------9(3)----6(3)------4(4)
    6. Roger Clemens-----10(2)-----4(1)-------0------2(1)------2(2)
    7. Randy Johnson------5(1)------0--------3(1)-----0--------5(5)
    8. Satchel Paige--------0--------0--------6(2)-----2(1)------0
    9. Bob Feller------------0--------0-------3(1)-----2(1)-------0
    10. Warren Spahn-------0-------0---------0-------2(1)------2(2)
    10. Nolan Ryan----------0------4(1)-------0-------0---------0
    13. Sandy Koufax-------0-------0---------3(1)-----0---------0
    14. Bob Gibson----------0-------0---------0-------2(1)------0
    14. Steve Carlton-------0--------0---------0------2(1)------0
    16. Pedro Martinez------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    16. Curt Schilling--------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    16. Rube Foster---------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 4.---21 voters
    
    1. Lefty Grove - 73(9)
    2. Pete Alexander - 61(4)
    3. Christy Mathewson - 48(2)
    4. Tom Seaver - 31(2)
    5. Roger Clemens - 28(3)
    6. Randy Johnson - 17
    7. Satchel Paige - 15
    8. Pedro Martinez - 13
    9. Joe Williams - 6
    10. Sandy Koufax - 5
    11. Warren Spahn - 4
    11. Bob Feller - 4
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Kid Nichols - 1
    14. Rube Foster
    
    Here's the fine breakdown.
    
    --------------------------1st----2nd-----3rd----4th----5th
    1. Lefty Grove-----------45(9)---16(4)---6(2)---6(3)----0
    2. Pete Alexander--------20(4)---24(6)---9(3)---6(3)---2(2)
    3. Christy Mathewson----10(2)----8(2)--24(8)---4(2)---2(2)
    4. Tom Seaver-----------10(2)---12(3)---3(1)---4(2)---2(2)
    5. Roger Clemens---------15(3)----0------9(3)---2(1)---2(2)
    6. Randy Johnson----------0------4(1)-----0----10(5)---3(3)
    7. Satchel Paige-----------0------8(2)----3(1)----0-----4(4)
    8. Pedro Martinez---------5(1)----8(2)-----0------0------0
    9. Joe Williams-------------0------4(1)-----0-----2(1)----0
    10. Sandy Koufax----------0--------0-----3(1)---2(1)----0
    11. Warren Spahn----------0--------0------0-----2(1)---2(2)
    11. Bob Feller--------------0--------0-----3(1)----0-----1(1)
    13. Steve Carlton----------0--------0------0-----2(1)----0
    14. Bob Caruthers----------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Kid Nichols-------------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Rube Foster------------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 5.  19 voters.
    
    1. Pete Alexander - 65(7)
    2. Tom Seaver - 50(6)
    3. Christy Mathewson - 39(2)
    4. Randy Johnson - 32
    5. Satchel Paige - 31(2)
    6. Roger Clemens - 21(1)
    7. Warren Spahn - 14
    8. Bob Feller - 7
    9. Kid Nichols - 6
    10. Pedro Martinez - 5(1)
    11. Joe Williams - 4
    12. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Sandy Koufax - 1
    -------------------------------------------- 
    The fine breakdown.  
    -----------------------1st----2nd----3rd---4th---5th
    1. Pete Alexander-----35(7)--24(6)---6(2)---0-----0
    2. Tom Seaver--------30(6)---8(2)---6(2)--6(3)---0
    3. Christy Mathewson-10(2)---8(2)--12(4)--8(4)--1(1)
    4. Randy Johnson-------0------8(2)--15(5)--6(3)--3(3)
    5. Satchel Paige------10(2)---8(2)---6(2)--6(3)--1(1)
    6. Roger Clemens------5(1)---8(2)---3(1)--4(2)--1(1) 
    7. Warren Spahn-------0-----4(1)---3(1)---0----7(7)
    8. Bob Feller-----------0-----4(1)----0----2(1)--1(1) 
    9. Kid Nichols----------0-------0----3(1)--2(1)--1(1) 
    10. Pedro Martinez----5(1)-----0-----0-----0-----0
    11. Joe Williams--------0-------0-----0---2(1)--1(1)
    12. Bob Gibson---------0-------0----3(1)--0-----0 
    13. Steve Carlton------0-------0-----0---2(1)---0
    14. Bob Caruthers------0-------0-----0----0----1(1) 
    14. Sandy Koufax-------0------0-----0----0----1(1)
    
    Round 6. ---20 voters.
    
    1. Christy Mathewson - 65
    2. Tom Seaver - 59
    3. Randy Johnson - 35
    4. Roger Clemens - 28
    4. Warren Spahn - 28
    6. Satchel Paige - 27
    6. Pedro Martinez - 27
    8. Smokey Joe Williams - 8
    9. Bob Feller - 6
    9. Kid Nichols - 6
    11. Sandy Koufax - 4
    12. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Mordecai Brown - 1
    
    The fine breakdown.
    -------------------------------1st-----2nd-----3rd-----4th-----5th-----Total
    Christy Mathewson-------------7(35)---4(16)---2(6)----2(4)----4(4)-----65
    Tom Seaver--------------------7(35)---3(12)---1(3)----3(6)----3(3)-----59
    Randy Johnson-------------------0-----5(20)---3(9)----2(4)----2(2)-----35
    Roger Clemens-----------------2(10)---1(4)----4(12)-----0-----2(2)-----28
    Warren Spahn-------------------0-----1(4)----4(12)---5(10)----2(2)----28
    Satchel Paige--------------------0-----3(12)---3(9)----3(6)-----0-------27
    Pedro Martinez-----------------3(15)---1(4)----1(3)----2(4)----1(1)-----27
    Smokey Joe Williams-------------0------0-------1(3)----2(4)----1(1)-----8
    Bob Feller----------------------1(5)----0--------0-------0------1(1)-----6
    Kid Nichols----------------------0------1(4)------0-------0-----2(2)-----6
    Sandy Koufax-------------------0------1(4)------0-------0-------0------4
    Bob Gibson----------------------0-------0------1(3)------0------0-------3
    Steve Carlton-------------------0-------0-------0-------1(2)-----0------2
    Bob Caruthers-------------------0------0--------0--------0-----1(1)-----1
    Mordecai Brown-----------------0-------0-------0---------0----1(1)-----1
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 7.---Round 7
    
    ---------------------1st-----2nd----3rd-----4th------5th-----Totals
    1. Tom Seaver------30(6)---24(6)--12(4)---2(1)----4(4)-------72
    2. Warren Spahn----10(2)---24(6)---9(3)--12(6)------0--------55
    3. Roger Clemens----35(7)----8(2)----0-----4(2)----6(6)-------53
    4. Satchel Paige-----20(4)---12(4)--12(4)----0-------0--------48
    5. Randy Johnson----5(1)----8(2)---15(3)---4(2)----2(2)-------34
    6. Pedro Martinez----5(1)----4(1)----3(1)----6(3)-----0--------18
    7. Bob Gibson---------0-----4(1)-----3(1)----4(2)---1(1)-------13
    8. Sandy Koufax------0-------0------9(3)-----0------1(1)------10
    9. Kid Nichols---------5(1)----0-------0------2(1)-----0---------7
    10. Bob Feller---------0-------0-------0------2(1)----3(3)-------5
    11. Nolan Ryan--------0-------0-------0------2(1)----1(1)-------3
    11. Steve Carlton-----0--------0------0--------0-----3(3)-------3
    13. Amos Rusie-------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    13. Ed Walsh---------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    13. Joe Rogan--------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 8.---Round 8.
    
    
    
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Roger		Clemens		9	1	2	5	0	65
    Randy		Johnson		1	4	7	1	2	46
    Warren		Spahn		2	5	4	1	1	45
    Satchel		Paige		3	6	0	2	1	44
    Pedro		Martinez	3	1	1	2	2	28
    Bob		Feller		0	0	1	3	5	14
    Sandy		Koufax		1	2	0	0	1	14
    Kid		Nichols		1	0	0	3	3	14
    Bob		Gibson		0	1	1	0	2	9
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	0	2	1	0	8
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-06-2009, 06:20 AM.

  • #2
    Pitchers:

    Pre - 1900: Tim Keefe, John "Monte" Ward, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Mickey Welch, Sadie McMahon, Jim McCormick, Charlie "Old Hoss" Radbourne, Amos Rusie, Jim Whitney, Larry Corcoran, Clark Griffith, Al Spalding, Kid Nichols, Charlie Ferguson, Tony Mullane, Silver King, Bobby Mathews, Tommy Bond, Jim Creighton, Gus Weyhing, Jack Stivetts, Will White, Ted Breitenstein, Adonis Terry, Will White, Charlie Buffington, Bill Hutchison, Guy Hecker, Terry Larkin, George Bradley, Fred Goldsmith, Ed Morris, Dave Foutz, Toad Ramsey, Jim Devlin, Matt Kilroy, Ben Sanders, Elton Chamberlain.

    1900-1930: Rube Waddell, Mordecai Brown, Addie Joss, Ed Walsh, Eddie Plank, Joe McGinnity, Chief Bender, Ed Reulbach, Nap Rucker, Wilbur Cooper, Deacon Phillippe, Dazzy Vance, Stan Coveleski, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Ed Cicotte, Bill Dinneen, Ted Lyons, Eppa Rixey, Vic Willis, Hippo Vaughn, Dutch Leonard, Urban Shocker, Burleigh Grimes, Doc White, Nick Altrock, Sam Jones, Jack Coombs, Joe Wood, Jack Chesbro, Jim Bagby, Bullet Joe Bush, Waite Hoyt, Red Faber, Bob Shawkey, Ray Caldwell, Ray Collins, George Mogridge, Earl Hamilton, George Uhle, Eddie Rommel, Dolph Luque.

    1930-1960: Dizzy Dean, Carl Hubbell, Whitey Ford, Robin Roberts, Wes Ferrell, Bob Lemon, Lefty Gomez, Hal Newhouser, Red Ruffing, Bucky Walters, Early Wynn, Billy Pierce, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller, Don Newcombe, Tommy Bridges, Lon Warneke, Mel Harder, Bob Turley, Harry Breechen and Bobby Shantz.

    1960-1980: Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Steve Carlton, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Bob Gibson, Phil Niekro, Jim "Catfish" Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Wilbur Wood, Don Drysdale, Jim Bunning, Mickey Lolich, Luis Tiant, Sparky Lyle, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, Dave Stieb, Bert Blyleven, Lew Burdette, Curt Simmons, Harvey Haddix, Johnny Antonelli, Vern Law, Bob Purkey, Johnny Podres, Joe Nuxhall, Ron Perranoski, Bob Veale, Dick Ellsworth, Jim Maloney, Chris Short, Bob Friend, Jim Palmer, Milt Pappas, Jerry Koosman, Dock Ellis, Sam McDowell, Jim 'Mudcat' Grant.

    1980-Present: Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Jack Morris, Kevin Brown, John Smoltz, Mike Mussina, Tom Glavine.

    Negro Leagues:
    Robert Leroy "Satchel" Paige, (1926-1967)
    "Smokey Joe" Williams, (1905-1932)
    Wilbur "Bullet Joe" Rogan, (1917-1938)
    "Cannonball" Dick Redding, (1911-1938)
    Dave Brown, (1918-1925)
    Andrew "Rube" Foster, (1902-1926)
    Bill 'Willie' Foster, (1923-1938)
    Ray Brown (1930-1948)
    Hilton Smith (1932-1948
    Jesse 'Nip" Winters (1920-1933)
    Will 'Cannonball' Jackman (1925-1936)
    Jose Mendez (1908-1926)
    John Donaldson (1913-1934)
    Walter Ball (1903-1923)
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-06-2009, 06:28 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      My Slate of Candidates for the next 5 Slots. Numbers following indicate where Bill James ranked them in 2001.

      1. Warren Spahn 6
      2. Satchel Paige 2
      3. Smokey Joe Williams, 13
      4. Bob Feller 14
      5. Juan Marichal 21

      Next up.

      Pedro Martinez 29
      Mordecai Brown 15
      Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-06-2009, 08:29 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Satchel Paige
        Randy Johnson
        Joe Williams
        Bob Gibson
        Pedro Martinez

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Pedro Martinez
          2. Warren Spahn
          3. Satchel Paige
          4. Randy Johnson
          5. Bob Feller

          Comment


          • #6
            Paige
            Johnson
            Spahn
            Martinez
            Nichols
            "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

            - Alvin Dark

            Comment


            • #7
              1. Randy Johnson
              2. Satchel Paige
              3. Warren Spahn
              4. Pedro Martinez
              5. Kid Nichols

              Next - Gibson, Feller, Hubbell, Williams, Carlton
              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

              Comment


              • #8
                1. Kid Nichols
                2. Warren Spahn
                3. Randy Johnson
                4. Bob Feller
                5. Steve Carlton
                "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
                -Casey Stengel

                Comment


                • #9
                  Satchel Paige
                  Warren Spahn
                  Bob Gibson
                  Steve Carlton
                  Juan Marichal
                  Randy Johnson
                  Bob Feller

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1) Spahn
                    2) Paige
                    3) Nichols
                    4) Feller
                    5) R. Johnson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Randy Johnson
                      Pedro
                      Koufax
                      Spahn
                      Nichols
                      "he probably used some performance enhancing drugs so he could do a better job on his report...i hear they make you gain weight" - Dr. Zizmor

                      "I thought it was interesting and yes a conversation piece. Next time I post a similar story I will close with the question "So, do you think either of them have used steroids?" so that I can make the topic truly relevant to discussions about today's game." - Eric Davis

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqul1GyK7-g

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        R. Johnson
                        Spahn
                        Kid Nichols
                        Pedro
                        Hubbell
                        Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1. Satchel Paige
                          2. Pedro Martinez
                          3. Bob Feller
                          4. Randy Johnson
                          5. Bob Gibson
                          Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1. Satchel Paige
                            2. Randy Johnson
                            3. Pedro Martinez
                            4. Warren Spahn
                            5. Bob Feller

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              pedro martinez
                              mariano rivera
                              randy johnson
                              satchel paige
                              mordecai brown

                              Comment

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