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1980s Star Power
With all the talk about star power in the 70s and 30s, we had some members also saying how they thought the 1980s was a very weak period in baseball, and that it had a real lack of true stars. Bill James also offered this opinion in the original version of his Historical Baseball Abstract when he said this:
"The baseball which returned from the strike in 1982 was perhaps a little lackluster. Most Valuable Players and Cy Young Award Winners were difficult to identify for a couple of years, 40 homer seasons were all but extinct and reliable starting pitchers scarcer than normal."
All of this, IMO, is quite clearly false. The MVPs in the five years 1982-1986 were Dale Murphy (twice), Robin Yount, Cal Ripken, Ryne Sandberg, Willie Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Willie McGee, Mike Schmidt, and Roger Clemens. Out of that, we have two fluke MVPs, who really weren't all that great players but just had an outstanding one season (Hernandez, McGee). Every era has a few of these, that's nothing out of the ordinary. It's not like nobodies were winning because no one was any good. Then we have two near HOF players who some want in (Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly), and the rest (Yount, Ripken, Sandberg, Schmidt, Clemens) are all truly great players and pretty much consensus all time greats (with the possible exception of Sandberg.
Cy Young winners were perhaps a little bit more flukish, but that is true with the general way the awards have gone. There have always been more fluke players winning the Cy Young than the MVP. Players like Mike McCormick, Jim Lonborg, Bob Turley, Vern Law, Dean Chance and Randy Jones all won Cy Youngs in other eras. The Cy Youngs in the years after the strike were Steve Carlton, Pete Vuckovich, John Denny, LaMarr Hoyt, Rick Sutcliffe, Willie Hernandez, Dwight Gooden, Bret Saberhagen, Mike Scott, and Roger Clemens. We have two all time greats in Carlton and Clemens, three who were all time great for a short time but didn't last long (Gooden, Scott, Saberhagen), and the rest are good pitchers who had career years. However, like I said this is normal. Every era of the CYA has had a large number of fluke winners.
I don't find the MVP or CYA winners after the strike to be "difficult to indentify with".
With the 40 home run seaosns, there were four in the five years after the strike, those by Tony Armas, Mike Schmidt, Darrell Evans, and Jesse Barfield. 40 home run seasons were down a bit, so what? The 80s weren't a huge home run era. That doesn't say anything about the quality of the league or its stars.
James goes on.....
"There was a transition period between generations of stars, with the Roses and Reggies and Ryans and Carltons fading slowly away and the Bogges and Mattinglys and Tim Raineses and Tony Gwynns not yet fully established. Only a few superstars, Dale Murphy and Robin Yount being the obvious ones, bridged the gap. George Brett and Jim Rice, though still of an age to be dominant players, did not dominate."
Rice wasn't dominating that much, but I don't know where he got that part about George Brett from. Brett was dominating. He had an awesome 1985 season, and good years throughout the decade, certainly just as dominant as his 1970s seasons.
Anyway, James is wrong about there not being many stars to bridge the gap. He mentions Murphy and Yount, I'll give some more great stars of that time:
Cal Ripken, Eddie Murray, Dwight Evans, Wade Boggs, Bobby Grich, Carlton Fisk, Lou Whitaker, Alan Trammell, George Brett, Paul Molitor, Ted Simmons, Dave Winfield, Willie Randolph, Rickey Henderson, Ryne Sandberg, Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Tim Raines, Al Oliver, Mike Schmidt, Keith Hernandez, and Ozzie Smith.
That's a pretty distinguished list of stars, and I'd put them against the big boys from just about any era. All those guys (along with Yount and Murphy) were "bridging the gap", and they did it quite well.
That ends James' argument.
Another thing to take into consideration I've heard a few times here is that the "baby boom" generation was reaching maturity in the 1980s. That's the time there were many people bieng born, and the country was expanding its horizons. New technology for fitness was coming out, and the computer age was really beginning. This was the time when workout gyms became common and people really all started believing the virtues of a weight lifting program.
Statisticians have tried to come up with ways to quantify league quality of play, including our very own SABR Matt recently, and the general conclusion has been that the 1978-1986 period (the exact time James described as "lackluster") was, indeed the strongest time for baseball, and the relative lack of separation from the pack of the stars is because of this.
So, I'd like to hear some opinions on this. How do you think the 1980s star pwer and quality of play compares to other eras?
I personally think the 1980s are probably the 2nd highest level baseball we've had, behind the 1970s.
"The baseball which returned from the strike in 1982 was perhaps a little lackluster. Most Valuable Players and Cy Young Award Winners were difficult to identify for a couple of years, 40 homer seasons were all but extinct and reliable starting pitchers scarcer than normal."
All of this, IMO, is quite clearly false. The MVPs in the five years 1982-1986 were Dale Murphy (twice), Robin Yount, Cal Ripken, Ryne Sandberg, Willie Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Willie McGee, Mike Schmidt, and Roger Clemens. Out of that, we have two fluke MVPs, who really weren't all that great players but just had an outstanding one season (Hernandez, McGee). Every era has a few of these, that's nothing out of the ordinary. It's not like nobodies were winning because no one was any good. Then we have two near HOF players who some want in (Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly), and the rest (Yount, Ripken, Sandberg, Schmidt, Clemens) are all truly great players and pretty much consensus all time greats (with the possible exception of Sandberg.
Cy Young winners were perhaps a little bit more flukish, but that is true with the general way the awards have gone. There have always been more fluke players winning the Cy Young than the MVP. Players like Mike McCormick, Jim Lonborg, Bob Turley, Vern Law, Dean Chance and Randy Jones all won Cy Youngs in other eras. The Cy Youngs in the years after the strike were Steve Carlton, Pete Vuckovich, John Denny, LaMarr Hoyt, Rick Sutcliffe, Willie Hernandez, Dwight Gooden, Bret Saberhagen, Mike Scott, and Roger Clemens. We have two all time greats in Carlton and Clemens, three who were all time great for a short time but didn't last long (Gooden, Scott, Saberhagen), and the rest are good pitchers who had career years. However, like I said this is normal. Every era of the CYA has had a large number of fluke winners.
I don't find the MVP or CYA winners after the strike to be "difficult to indentify with".
With the 40 home run seaosns, there were four in the five years after the strike, those by Tony Armas, Mike Schmidt, Darrell Evans, and Jesse Barfield. 40 home run seasons were down a bit, so what? The 80s weren't a huge home run era. That doesn't say anything about the quality of the league or its stars.
James goes on.....
"There was a transition period between generations of stars, with the Roses and Reggies and Ryans and Carltons fading slowly away and the Bogges and Mattinglys and Tim Raineses and Tony Gwynns not yet fully established. Only a few superstars, Dale Murphy and Robin Yount being the obvious ones, bridged the gap. George Brett and Jim Rice, though still of an age to be dominant players, did not dominate."
Rice wasn't dominating that much, but I don't know where he got that part about George Brett from. Brett was dominating. He had an awesome 1985 season, and good years throughout the decade, certainly just as dominant as his 1970s seasons.
Anyway, James is wrong about there not being many stars to bridge the gap. He mentions Murphy and Yount, I'll give some more great stars of that time:
Cal Ripken, Eddie Murray, Dwight Evans, Wade Boggs, Bobby Grich, Carlton Fisk, Lou Whitaker, Alan Trammell, George Brett, Paul Molitor, Ted Simmons, Dave Winfield, Willie Randolph, Rickey Henderson, Ryne Sandberg, Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Tim Raines, Al Oliver, Mike Schmidt, Keith Hernandez, and Ozzie Smith.
That's a pretty distinguished list of stars, and I'd put them against the big boys from just about any era. All those guys (along with Yount and Murphy) were "bridging the gap", and they did it quite well.
That ends James' argument.
Another thing to take into consideration I've heard a few times here is that the "baby boom" generation was reaching maturity in the 1980s. That's the time there were many people bieng born, and the country was expanding its horizons. New technology for fitness was coming out, and the computer age was really beginning. This was the time when workout gyms became common and people really all started believing the virtues of a weight lifting program.
Statisticians have tried to come up with ways to quantify league quality of play, including our very own SABR Matt recently, and the general conclusion has been that the 1978-1986 period (the exact time James described as "lackluster") was, indeed the strongest time for baseball, and the relative lack of separation from the pack of the stars is because of this.
So, I'd like to hear some opinions on this. How do you think the 1980s star pwer and quality of play compares to other eras?
I personally think the 1980s are probably the 2nd highest level baseball we've had, behind the 1970s.
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