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Three Immortals In One City

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  • Three Immortals In One City

    In the 1950s, three legends were present in one city: New York. All represented different teams. There was Mantle with the Yankees, Mays with the Giants, and Snider with "Dem Bums." These team were dominant in this time. They had a total 9* World Series triumphs, 17* appearances, and 7* match-ups between each other from 1947 (Duke's first year) to 1957 (Giants' last year in New York).

    Has any other city had such dominant teams and/or players that could match this?



    *Does not include every single game
    "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tyrus4189Cobb View Post
    In the 1950s, three legends were present in one city: New York. All represented different teams. There was Mantle with the Yankees, Mays with the Giants, and Snider with "Dem Bums." These team were dominant in this time. They had a total 9* World Series triumphs, 17* appearances, and 7* match-ups between each other from 1947 (Duke's first year) to 1957 (Giants' last year in New York).

    Has any other city had such dominant teams and/or players that could match this?
    First off, Snider was not an immortal and was probably not even the best player on his team. He was a great player on a great team and he happened to play the same position as the guys who were the best players on the Yankees and the Giants at that time.
    .


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    • #3
      Not all great at the same time, but the '28 As had the greatest assortment of one-time all-time greats together:

      Cochrane (arguable #1 catcher at least for a time)
      Al Simmons
      Ty Cobb
      Jimmie Foxx
      Tris Speaker
      Eddie Collins
      Lefty Grove

      That would include arguable at the time:

      1) The greatest catcher
      2) The greatest player (at least Cobb was through '28)
      3) The greatest right handed batter
      4) The greatest centerfielder
      5) The greatest second baseman
      6) The greatest left handed pitcher, and a case for #1 all time.

      Comment


      • #4
        Greg Maddox, John Smoltz and Tom Glavine.

        At least 2 1/2 surefire Hall of Famers.
        If I had only spent a tenth of the time studying Physics that I spent learning Star Wars and Baseball trivia, I would have won the Nobel Prize.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by brett View Post
          Not all great at the same time, but the '28 As had the greatest assortment of one-time all-time greats together:

          Cochrane (arguable #1 catcher at least for a time)
          Al Simmons
          Ty Cobb
          Jimmie Foxx
          Tris Speaker
          Eddie Collins
          Lefty Grove

          That would include arguable at the time:

          1) The greatest catcher
          2) The greatest player (at least Cobb was through '28)
          3) The greatest right handed batter
          4) The greatest centerfielder
          5) The greatest second baseman
          6) The greatest left handed pitcher, and a case for #1 all time.
          The greatest RH hitter was Hornsby, especially at this time he was, and was probably better than Foxx even after Foxx was done.

          Oh, and the 28 A's finished 2 /12 games behind the Yankees. Would have been fun to have seen Cobb and Speaker get into a world series if they had won. Collins may not have been on the post season roster if they had won. He only played a few innings in the field all year, was mainly just a pinch hitter.
          Last edited by SavoyBG; 01-02-2009, 08:45 PM.
          .


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          • #6
            The Big Red Machine's Big Eight of 75-76 would qualify

            HOFers (or SHOULD be as well)
            Johnny Bench, greatest total package catcher ever
            Joe Morgan, one of the best 2Bs ever
            Tony Perez, best 1Bman of his day
            Pete Rose, ultimate compiler, but he would be in the Hall

            Outstanding performers of their day
            Dave Concepcion, gets HOF discussions, the Reds retired his number as well
            George Foster, 50 homers in a season, and a darn good Red
            Ken Griffey, nice solid career in the game
            Cesar Geronimo, well, not EVERY 8 (or 9 in the AL) can be an AS at every position.

            Also the 1993 Blue Jays would give that lineup a run for its money
            HOFers
            Rickey Henderson
            Paul Molitor
            Roberto Alomar

            Outstanding stars of their day
            Joe Carter
            John Olerud
            Devon White
            Tony Fernandez

            You may really start to see stuff like this more and more going forward from the 1990s.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by SteveJRogers View Post
              The Big Red Machine's Big Eight of 75-76 would qualify

              HOFers (or SHOULD be as well)
              Johnny Bench, greatest total package catcher ever
              Joe Morgan, one of the best 2Bs ever
              Tony Perez, best 1Bman of his day
              Pete Rose, ultimate compiler, but he would be in the Hall

              Perez was never the best 1Bman of any day, but especially not in 75 or 76.

              Here are the win shares leaders at 1B for those years:

              1975
              Mayberry - 33
              Garvey - 25
              Scott - 23
              Thornton - 23
              Powell - 23
              Stargell - 22
              Watson - 20
              Yaz - 20
              Perez - 19

              1976
              Watson - 31
              Carew - 30
              Garvey - 26
              Hargrove - 24
              Tenace - 22
              Chambliss - 21
              May - 19
              Scott - 19
              Yaz - 18
              Stargell - 17
              Perez - 16
              .


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              • #8
                Hmmm, so we really want to have an argument about you wanting John Mayberry and Bob Watson over Tony Perez?

                Yeah, good luck with that one.

                How many 100 RBI seasons?

                Let me put it this way, there is a prevailing thought that the Big Red Dynasty effectively ended when he was traded to Montreal following the 1976 season.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SteveJRogers View Post
                  Hmmm, so we really want to have an argument about you wanting John Mayberry and Bob Watson over Tony Perez?

                  Yeah, good luck with that one.

                  How many 100 RBI seasons?

                  Let me put it this way, there is a prevailing thought that the Big Red Dynasty effectively ended when he was traded to Montreal following the 1976 season.
                  Look, if you think that 100 RBI seasons are the way to judge how good a player is I guess we don't have much to debate.

                  Joe Carter (ten 100 RBI seasons) must be much better than Mickey Mantle (four 100 RBI seasons), right?

                  There is no "prevailing thought" about anything. The dynsasty ended when the Reds team ERA went from 3.51 in 1976 to 4.21 in 1977. Unless Perez was gonna pitch in 1977, it had almost nothing to do with him leaving.

                  Perez was NEVER the best 1Bman at any time in his career, and certainly not in 1975 or 1976.
                  .


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                  • #10
                    Anyway, that aside, the Giants of the 60s had a few legends on their roster;

                    Juan Marichal, Willie McCovey, Orlando Cepeda, Gaylord Perry and some guy named Mays.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SavoyBG View Post
                      Perez was NEVER the best 1Bman at any time in his career, and certainly not in 1975 or 1976.
                      Really, then why is he often cited in many, many places as BEING the NL top 1B man of the 70s, and in some cases in the game? Why the hell did he get into the Hall if guys like Mayberry and Watson put up better Bill James stats?

                      And of course I don't think 100 RBI seasons are any true measurement, but don't forget the era that Perez did it either.

                      Look, no one is suggesting putting Perez in the same category with the likes of Lou Gehrig, I was simply saying that Perez WAS considered the top 1Bman of the game at the height of the Reds dynasty. The same way Don Mattingly EASILY is the best 1Bman in the game from 1984-1989, and I don't think Mattingly is Hall worthy!

                      Put it this way, use the old fashioned EYES test. Ask someone who saw Perez, Watson and Mayberry play, and they'll all take Perez, easily.
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                      • #12
                        NYC's dominance of MLB through the 50s is legendary.
                        From 1949 through the beginning of the '57 Series they one every game.
                        That is 47 consecutive World Series games was won by a NYC team.
                        Who is going to match that?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SavoyBG View Post
                          First off, Snider was not an immortal and was probably not even the best player on his team. He was a great player on a great team and he happened to play the same position as the guys who were the best players on the Yankees and the Giants at that time.
                          This from a New York Giants fan: Not only did Snider hit more home runs than anyone in the 50's, but he was as good as Mickey in center and almost as good as Mays. He's a HOFer, and an immortal in every sense of he word.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ralph Zig Tyko View Post
                            This from a New York Giants fan: Not only did Snider hit more home runs than anyone in the 50's, but he was as good as Mickey in center and almost as good as Mays. He's a HOFer, and an immortal in every sense of he word.
                            In that bandbox? Rey Ordonez, Kaz Matsui and Al Leiter would crack a decent 5 homers a year there!
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SteveJRogers View Post
                              Really, then why is he often cited in many, many places as BEING the NL top 1B man of the 70s, and in some cases in the game? Why the hell did he get into the Hall if guys like Mayberry and Watson put up better Bill James stats?

                              And of course I don't think 100 RBI seasons are any true measurement, but don't forget the era that Perez did it either.

                              Look, no one is suggesting putting Perez in the same category with the likes of Lou Gehrig, I was simply saying that Perez WAS considered the top 1Bman of the game at the height of the Reds dynasty. The same way Don Mattingly EASILY is the best 1Bman in the game from 1984-1989, and I don't think Mattingly is Hall worthy!

                              Put it this way, use the old fashioned EYES test. Ask someone who saw Perez, Watson and Mayberry play, and they'll all take Perez, easily.
                              He's in the hall of fame because the guys who vote are overly impressed with RBI totals like you are, and Perez has 1652 RBIs. Perez was not considered the top firstbaseman in the NL, or the game, in 1975 and 1976 when the Reds dynasty was it its peak. Steve Garvey started the all star game for the NL in each of those years. Perez barely slugged over .450 in those two seasons.

                              I saw all the guys you ask about and in 1975 I would have taken Mayberry or Watson over Perez and certainly I would take Watson over Perez in 1976. Watson was a much better hitter than Perez at that time. Tony's best years were back in 1969 and 1970. If either of those guys were batting 4th or 5th on the Reds those two years they would have had a lot more than 109 RBIs in 1975 and 91 RBIs in 1976, with Rose, Griffey and Morgan on base as much as they were.

                              And as for Mattingly, I saw almost every game he ever played and he was vastly overrated. It was preposterous when he won the 1985 MVP instead of Henderson.
                              .


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