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Originally posted by BigRon
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How much Ashburn did you see live? How, if at all, has his reputation as a player changed since your youth? Could you listen to Phillies games out there?"No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.” -
What do the best advanced metrics say about Snider vs. Ashburn as fielders, Layson?Originally posted by layson27 View Post
(Thank you.)Comment
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Many, many years ago his name would come up, recent years, forgotten.Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
Of course never saw him but I recall many years ago, raves about what he may have been.
Outfield walls, no padding in Pete's time.
I read one article, hit his head on wall, caught the ball, threw to the cut off man, collapsed.
Concussion on that one.
Admit I never looked at his stats and yes 1941 was just one season, but what a year.Comment
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I can share what I've found, Layson can add on to.Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
Total Zone, Defensive Regression Analysis, Tom Thress, Baseball Projection, Baseball Prospectus DRP.
DS: (22), (110), (-3.3 wins), (94), (48)
RA: 76, _144, _6.2 wins, _131, _141,
Ashburn clocks Snider in all but the Tom Thress Retrosheet style system.
Why does Thress zag for Snider when others zig for Ashburn?
Ashburn was awful on balls in play becoming extra base hits (component 6), a component I don't believe is captured well or at all in the other metrics.
He also was below average on baserunner advancement (component 9).
His range and baserunner kills were good but not outstanding (component 5 and 8).
Snider comes off with excellent range numbers in Brooklyn, though Ebbets field has smaller dimensions.
The composite remainder of his totals are just below average.
Jacquelyn Eva Marchand (1983-2017)
http://www.tezakfuneralhome.com/noti...uelyn-MarchandComment
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layson27Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post
Ebbets HAS be the smallest ballpark built after 1910. When's the last time a park was built 393' being the deepest dimension of the park? With power alleys that short, in that era?!
I'd guarantee Snider's fielding splits show him to be MUCH better at home, due to playing in a Triple A sized ballpark for 10 years. Anyone have the splits? Layson?
FWIW:
Dimaggio hit all 8 of his HR on the road during the World Series. He slugged .545 at Ebbets, .378 at Yankee Stadium.
Mantle slugged .593 at Ebbets, .478 at Yankee Stadium.
Berra slugged .565 at Ebbets, .449 at Yankee Stadium.
YankeeStadium1938.gif
EbbetsField.gifComment
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Ebbets was so small. One of the only parks with no fence deeper than 400 feet.Originally posted by Jar of Flies View Post
edit: to build on this as you did… Connie Mack Stadium was huge. Wouldn’t that create more opportunities for XBH where as in Ebbets Field they would be bombs? Phillies also were notorious for their fly ball staff. Adding to XBH opportunities.Last edited by bluesky5; 03-19-2023, 03:25 PM."No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”Comment
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Holy Crap I didn't realize Ebbets was that small!Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
Surprised someone didn't hit 40 HR at home there.Comment
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Even what could be considered deep RCF in other parks is a short 344.Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli View Post
Starts out so short down the RF line, not very deep as it gets away from the line.Comment
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Had to be the wall and double fences on top of the wall in RFOriginally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post
If not that high for sure Duke gets a couple maybe a few 50 homer seasons.
I could even see him chase 60 if not for the height of the wall and two fences.
Take a look, Duke home runs 1953-57--------42-40-42-43-40.
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The wall is also concave and the various surfaces made caroms rough to play."No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”Comment
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Figure it out, Duke not in the same legue in career home runs with Bonds and Aaron or even Killebrew.
If I have it correct they all had 8 seasons 40 or more, Duke had 4 and Bonds and Aaron played longer.
Seems to me the Dodgers had more RH long ball hitters, we can see how it worked out for the LH Duke.Comment
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Thress has contrarian views on several big name OFer's (Snider, Ashburn, Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Ott, WInfield, Yaz, etc...). It seems his Infielder rankings are much more mainstream, though I could be wrong on that.Originally posted by Jar of Flies View PostComment
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Yes, I have to go back to I believe the 1947 WS, Dodger Cookie Lavagetto 9th inning pinch hit double off the RF wall, two outs and Bill Bevins lost a no hitter and the gameOriginally posted by bluesky5 View Post
I've seen the video in the past, the ball over Tommy Henrichs head against wall, wondering how high up on the wall, not that it matters.
Well just took a look, Henrich playing the ball off the wall, poor quality video and kind of late, could only see Henrich at the last second.
He is facing the wall and it appears the ball hit only a few feet or more from the base of the wall. Played at 1/4 speed still difficult to tell.
Thats the game, tough to lose a no hitter and a game in the WS on a routine short fly ball .
Yanks IBB on Pete Reiser and then Cookie pinch hits.Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 03-19-2023, 04:34 PM.Comment
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For sure on that Henrich play, you can see he had trouble getting control of the ball.Originally posted by bluesky5 View PostComment
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Had no idea Bevins took a no hitter that deep into a World Series game.Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post"No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”Comment
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