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Gaylord Perry's 1972 season

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  • Gaylord Perry's 1972 season

    Gaylord Perry had one of the finest pitching seasons in 1972.

    342 IP, 24-16 W-L, 1.92 ERA, 170 ERA+, 234 Ks, 82 BB, 253 H, 0.978 WHIP

    He was a pitching machine. It seems the Indians just left him on the mound until the game was decided. Perry had a 22 game stretch where his IP per start were these.

    9--9--10--9--9--8--9--10--9--10.2--6--9--8.1--8.2--9--9--13--9--8.2--10--9--11

    Are you kindding me! Except for two games he pitched into the 9th inning! Six games he pitched into extra innings. Perry's season has mostly been forgotten because Steve Carlton had his insane 27-10 season in 1972. However, Perry optimizes the word "workhorse".
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  • #2
    1972 was a pitcher's year. Not to the extent that 1968 was, but the league ERAs that season were 3.06 in the Al and 3.45 for the NL. From the mid 1960s through the mid 1970s lots of teams let their best starters complete any starts where they were pitching well, saving thier best reliever for the back end of the rotation. Remember, top relief pitchers then were not just used in save situations, but anytime the game was still close. Marichal threw 30 complete games in 1968, Jenkins matched that in 1971, as did Carlton in 1972 and Hunter in 1975. Many top pitchers had seasons where they completed 25+ games in this period.

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    • #3
      Much like 1968 led to rule changes concerning the mound, 1972 led to the DH in the AL.

      How about Rob Guidry's 1978 season. People forget about that one as well.

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      • #4
        I believe that Perry's 1978 season was even better than his 1972.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by futurehalloffamer View Post
          I believe that Perry's 1978 season was even better than his 1972.


          (1972) 343 IP, 24-16 W-L, 1.92 ERA, 170 ERA+, 234 Ks, 82 BB, 253 H, 0.978 WHIP
          (1978) 261 IP, 21-6 W-L, 2.73 ERA, 121 ERA+, 154 Ks, 66 BB, 241 H, 1.178 WHIP

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
            Much like 1968 led to rule changes concerning the mound, 1972 led to the DH in the AL.

            How about Rob Guidry's 1978 season. People forget about that one as well.
            Who does? I hear it cited all the time, both by hardcore and casual fans. It made MLB Network's Prime 9, for what that's worth. I'd say Robin Roberts's brilliant 1953 season is more forgotten.
            "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

            - Alvin Dark

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AstrosFan View Post
              Who does? I hear it cited all the time, both by hardcore and casual fans. It made MLB Network's Prime 9, for what that's worth. I'd say Robin Roberts's brilliant 1953 season is more forgotten.
              Robin Roberts in general is pretty forgotten.

              But I agree that Guidry's '78 is not forgotten. It's still brought up quite often when the subject of pitchers and MVP's come up. And it seems to always be mentioned when the discussion turns to best years by a pitcher.

              Speaking of pitchers and MVP, for a guy who did win the MVP, Vida Blue's 1971 season seems to be somewhat forgotten. Hard to fathom that anybody would let a 21 year old pitch 312 innings. :dismay:

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mwiggins View Post
                Hard to fathom that anybody would let a 21 year old pitch 312 innings. :dismay:
                Code:
                (1950-2004)
                AGES 18-22
                INNINGS PITCHED >= 300
                T1   Bert Blyleven             1   
                T1   Larry Dierker             1   
                T1   Vida Blue                 1   
                The mid 60's through mid 70's was a pretty abusive time for pitchers- many truncated careers and ruined arms. What was a flamethrower like Mickey Lolich doing throwing 376 innings and 29 complete games? He pitched as much on 2 days rest that year as 4 days that year!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
                  Code:
                  (1950-2004)
                  AGES 18-22
                  INNINGS PITCHED >= 300
                  T1   Bert Blyleven             1   
                  T1   Larry Dierker             1   
                  T1   Vida Blue                 1   
                  The mid 60's through mid 70's was a pretty abusive time for pitchers- many truncated careers and ruined arms. What was a flamethrower like Mickey Lolich doing throwing 376 innings and 29 complete games? He pitched as much on 2 days rest that year as 4 days that year!
                  It's true a lot of young pitchers were pitching an unusual amount of innings back then, but how much evidence is there that it ruined their careers? Blyleven pitched almost 5000 innings in his career despite pitching 325 innings as a 22-year old. Blue had two 20-win seasons other than his MVP year and won over 200 games; Lolich pitched 300+ innings in the three seasons directly following his monster 376-inning year. Dierker didn't pitch past the age of 30, but there are a lot of pitchers who flame out early. Looking at all the pitchers who pitched over 320 innings in that 1970-1975 period -- Palmer, Blyleven, Jenkins, Lolich, Wood, Carlton, Hunter, Ryan -- it seems that none of them had trunctuated careers or ruined arms.

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                  • #10
                    Jim Palmer had the injuries in 1968 and was saved by surgery. He then went down in 1974 with elbow problems and by age 33 the writing was starting to appear on the wall.

                    Hunter had Arm strain and diabetes and was done basically at age 29.

                    Wilbur Wood wasn't a starter until age 29 and was a knuckleballer.

                    Nolan Ryan was superhuman, he wasn't typical. Using him is like saying Babe Ruth hit homers therefore everybody else should as well.

                    From 1970 to 1975 there were only 3 occurrences in which an under 25 year old pitched more then 300 innings. Bert, Vida, and Palmer.

                    Lowering it down to 280 gives us 8 names doing it 11 times. You have Grimsley who is never the same, you have Busby who is never the same, Holtzman would never again have a season like he did when he threw over 280 innings, Jim Coleman was never same again after his string of 2 280+ seasons, and Tom Bradley was never the same again.


                    The reality of the situation is that in your time frame teams really didn't have young pitchers throwing that many innings. Some made it through the crucible, many did not.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
                      Jim Palmer had the injuries in 1968 and was saved by surgery. He then went down in 1974 with elbow problems and by age 33 the writing was starting to appear on the wall.

                      Hunter had Arm strain and diabetes and was done basically at age 29.

                      Wilbur Wood wasn't a starter until age 29 and was a knuckleballer.

                      Nolan Ryan was superhuman, he wasn't typical. Using him is like saying Babe Ruth hit homers therefore everybody else should as well.

                      From 1970 to 1975 there were only 3 occurrences in which an under 25 year old pitched more then 300 innings. Bert, Vida, and Palmer.

                      Lowering it down to 280 gives us 8 names doing it 11 times. You have Grimsley who is never the same, you have Busby who is never the same, Holtzman would never again have a season like he did when he threw over 280 innings, Jim Coleman was never same again after his string of 2 280+ seasons, and Tom Bradley was never the same again.


                      The reality of the situation is that in your time frame teams really didn't have young pitchers throwing that many innings. Some made it through the crucible, many did not.
                      I believe Catfish had 184 wins by his 30th birthday which is the most wins by age 30 since World War II. All that pitching caught up to him rather quickly in his early 30s.
                      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                      • #12
                        It's hard to say with Catfish because of the diabetes.

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                        • #13
                          I think Wilbur Wood in 1971 is even more overlooked. Im guessing he was overshadowed by Blue that year, but really he pitched just as well.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mike90 View Post


                            (1972) 343 IP, 24-16 W-L, 1.92 ERA, 170 ERA+, 234 Ks, 82 BB, 253 H, 0.978 WHIP
                            (1978) 261 IP, 21-6 W-L, 2.73 ERA, 121 ERA+, 154 Ks, 66 BB, 241 H, 1.178 WHIP
                            I am guessing he likes the much better w/l record, and winning percentage. I don't think it is a coincidence that 1978 is Perry's best ever winning percentage.

                            Like you, I think his 1972 is tons better than 1978, and I don't care about the w/l record. Perry prevented runs at a much better rate in 1972, and he isn't responsible for his team's run support.

                            Perry 1972 - 2.87 runs of support per game
                            Perry 1978 - 4.48 runs of support per game

                            Perry 1972 neutralized - 28 wins, 10 losses
                            Perry 1978 neutralized - 16 wins, 11 losses

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by curveball View Post
                              I am guessing he likes the much better w/l record, and winning percentage. I don't think it is a coincidence that 1978 is Perry's best ever winning percentage.

                              Like you, I think his 1972 is tons better than 1978, and I don't care about the w/l record. Perry prevented runs at a much better rate in 1972, and he isn't responsible for his team's run support.

                              Perry 1972 - 2.87 runs of support per game
                              Perry 1978 - 4.48 runs of support per game

                              Perry 1972 neutralized - 28 wins, 10 losses
                              Perry 1978 neutralized - 16 wins, 11 losses
                              I don't care about what might have happened. I care about what did happen
                              "Any pitcher who throws at a batter and deliberately tries to hit him is a communist."

                              - Alvin Dark

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