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Did Pitchers of Yesteryear Throw With "Much Less" Velocity Than They Do Today?

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  • Bucketfoot
    replied
    Always thought Dazzy Vance was an easy 95 mph guy, had the size, classic Feller type delivery, plus that mean 12-6 curve that came busting in from on top. Guy made the majors for good at 31 and leads the league in K's 6-7 times in a row.....That's pretty good.

    Sent from my SM-J100VPP using Tapatalk

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  • Floyd Gondolli
    replied
    Did Pitchers of Yesteryear Throw With "Much Less Velocity" Than They Do Today?

    Consider this:
    In 2002, the average fastball was thrown 89.5 mph.

    In 2008, the average major-league fastball registered 90.9 mph. Last season, the average fastball reached 92.0 mph. In 2003, Houston reliever Billy Wagner was the only pitcher to throw at least 25 pitches at 100 mph or faster, according to Baseball Info Solutions. In 2015, eight pitchers hit triple digits.

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  • bluesky5
    replied
    Originally posted by thaa View Post
    The reason why you and I probably will see this, if we live that long, is that baseball becomes more and more reflective on itself. We see this now, with respect to the accumulated data that lead to shifts. As we see it in life with the statistical data gathered about ourselves and with all the sociological and scientific data gathered about ourselves that lead to hyper self-consciousness and loss of spontaneity. What would probably occur first in baseball, however, if we're lucky, is that the masters of the game will realize that no one will show up to watch shutouts. I suspect this may lead to some scaling back of shifting if averages and hr's decline.
    I can't wait for 3-5x the male enhancement, shaving cream, reverse mortgage and AARP commercials.

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  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Originally posted by thaa View Post
    The reason why you and I probably will see this, if we live that long, is that baseball becomes more and more reflective on itself. We see this now, with respect to the accumulated data that lead to shifts. As we see it in life with the statistical data gathered about ourselves and with all the sociological and scientific data gathered about ourselves that lead to hyper self-consciousness and loss of spontaneity. What would probably occur first in baseball, however, if we're lucky, is that the masters of the game will realize that no one will show up to watch shutouts. I suspect this may lead to some scaling back of shifting if averages and hr's decline.
    You youngsters got spoiled by the wiffle ball game that came about with the shrinking strike, livelier ball in the mid 1990's
    Now your watching real baseball and you don't like it. There is nothing wrong with the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Overlooked again, and again on this board, what game are some of you watching.
    The change up is back, featured by so many young pitchers, even the 95 MPH plus pitchers, open your eyes.
    Ten or so years ago the fire ballers were trying put batters a way with just speed.
    Finally heeding some advice of some past great, you can get the batter out by upsetting his timing.
    Have never seen so many young pitchers with the change of speed pitch and some darn good ones.
    Making the slower pitch more effective, the fact that they can throw with so much speed.
    Warren Spahn knew what he was talking about.

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  • thaa
    replied
    Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
    I pray to freaking God I never see this.
    The reason why you and I probably will see this, if we live that long, is that baseball becomes more and more reflective on itself. We see this now, with respect to the accumulated data that lead to shifts. As we see it in life with the statistical data gathered about ourselves and with all the sociological and scientific data gathered about ourselves that lead to hyper self-consciousness and loss of spontaneity. What would probably occur first in baseball, however, if we're lucky, is that the masters of the game will realize that no one will show up to watch shutouts. I suspect this may lead to some scaling back of shifting if averages and hr's decline.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dude Paskert
    replied
    Originally posted by Orioles5 View Post
    According to my grandfather he once saw Walter Johnson strike out Babe Ruth with a 220 mph fastball during a snowstorm in July.
    No idea what happened here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dude Paskert
    replied
    Originally posted by Orioles5 View Post
    According to my grandfather he once saw Walter Johnson strike out Babe Ruth with a 220 mph fastball during a snowstorm in July.
    Yeah, but next time up, Babe lifted a 190mph curve and the ball's exit speed was over 1000mph.
    That ball actually became mankind's first probe for life on Europa, even now frozen methane creatures are using ice bats to whack it around.

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  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    I believe opposing hitters had petitioned baseball to force Johnson to pitch for 70'6" to make it more fair for them.

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  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by Orioles5 View Post
    According to my grandfather he once saw Walter Johnson strike out Babe Ruth with a 220 mph fastball during a snowstorm in July.
    You forgot to mention the 120 mph head wind that Johnson had to throw into.

    Leave a comment:


  • Orioles5
    replied
    According to my grandfather he once saw Walter Johnson strike out Babe Ruth with a 220 mph fastball during a snowstorm in July.

    Leave a comment:


  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by Second Base Coach View Post
    I will give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who actually caught one of the guys in the debate. What a story!
    Even though modern scientific research shows the human memory is extremely unreliable? A person can differentiate between a 98 mph pitch and a 100 mph pitch 50 years apart?

    Leave a comment:


  • Honus Wagner Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by Mingo View Post
    For the average Joe who just observed a guy like Johnson pitch from the bleachers, I'd have to say no. What makes this observation interesting to me is that this was not an average Joe fan, but a Pacific Coast League pro who actually caught Johnson in spring training back when was trying to stick with the Senators. He was making all kinds of comments during the Nolan Ryan game about pitch calls by the catcher, etc. He didn't say a whole lot about Ryan until my dad asked the question. He was focused on their catcher and how he handled Ryan from behind the plate. My dad says the old guy was quick as a whip mentally. Allowing for a fairly generous allowance for emotional attachment to a bygone era and to a somewhat faded memory, it still tells an interesting story about Walter from someone who actually felt the sting of his heater.
    I'm not doubting his personal experience with the Big Train. But the human memory is notoriously inaccurate and unreliable. I just don't see how someone can differentiate the speed of a pitch between two pitchers who played 50 years apart. Fifty years is a LONG time. In legal matters eyewitness accounts are often inaccurate and just flat out wrong. A good amount of scientific research has shown the unreliability of human memory.

    Memory Not as Reliable as We Think

    Your Memory Might Not Be As Powerful As You Think

    Your Memory Is Unreliable, and Science Could Make It More So

    Leave a comment:


  • SHOELESSJOE3
    replied
    Again overlooked, how many young guns have found out they can get batter out, or cause some bad contact with the change up.
    The fact that they can throw high MPH makes the change of speed more effective.
    Warren Spahn said it all, hitting is time, upset the hitters timing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Second Base Coach
    replied
    Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Great stuff Mingo. I read lots of first hand accounts like this. I do have one issue with such accounts, though. IMO I believe it's impossible for any person to known with a strong degree of certainty who threw harder between two pitchers who played decades apart. Lets I say I was born in 1895 and I say Walter Johnson pitching in 1915 at age 20. Then I saw Nolan Ryan pitch in 1973 at age 78. I don't think the human memory is so accurate as to remember exactly how hard Walter Johnson threw. Also, lets say the human memory was accurate. Can such a person differentiate between a 98 mph fastball and a 100 mph fastball thown 50-60 years apart?
    I will give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who actually caught one of the guys in the debate. What a story!

    Leave a comment:

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