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Who Would Have Won the OTHER Cy Young Award?

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  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by dgarza
    If it went my way:

    1962
    NL - Don Drysdale
    AL - Ralph Terry

    1963
    NL - Sandy Koufax
    AL - Whitey Ford
    These are the only years where we disagree on both (and on a few years we agree on both

    Leave a comment:


  • dgarza
    replied
    If it went my way:

    1956
    NL - Don Newcombe
    AL - Herb Score

    1957
    NL - Warren Spahn (could see Jack Sandford)
    AL - Jim Bunning

    1958
    NL - Warren Spahn
    AL - Bob Turley (could see Whitey Ford)

    1959
    NL - Sam Jones
    AL - Camilo Pascual

    1960
    NL - Don Drysdale
    AL - Jim Bunning

    1961
    NL - Sandy Koufax (could see Warren Spahn)
    AL - White Ford

    1962
    NL - Don Drysdale
    AL - Ralph Terry

    1963
    NL - Sandy Koufax
    AL - Whitey Ford

    1964
    NL - Sandy Koufax (or Don Drysdale)
    AL - Dean Chance

    1965
    NL - Sandy Koufax
    AL - Sam McDowell

    1966
    NL - Sandy Koufax
    AL - Jim Kaat
    Last edited by dgarza; 04-12-2006, 08:20 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by KCGHOST
    I think the guy has a case for the guys he selected because he trying to tell us who would have won the voting.
    Wow, now he's trying to read the mind of voters?

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  • KCGHOST
    replied
    I think the guy has a case for the guys he selected because he trying to tell us who would have won the voting as opposed to who was really the best pitcher in the league than didn't win the CYA. Had I been doing I would have went with:

    56: Score or Wynn
    57: Frank Sullivan or Jim Bunning
    58: Sam Jones
    59: Vern Law
    60: Jim Bunning
    61: Curt Simmons or Bob Gibson
    62: Hank Aguirre
    63: Gary Peters
    64: Drysdale/Gibson/Koufax
    65: Sam McDowell
    66: Jim Kaat.

    Aguirre's 1962 was one of the all-time fluke seasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • DoubleX
    replied
    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
    The silent lefty
    I'd probably agree with that. If Ryan could have squeezed out 30 or so more innings, I might be persuaded to go for him.

    Leave a comment:


  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by DoubleX
    Carlton or Ryan?
    The silent lefty

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  • DoubleX
    replied
    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
    And I don't have EITHER of them in '81
    Carlton or Ryan?

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  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by DoubleX
    In Valenzuela's defense, he actually did have a slightly lower ERA (2.48 to 2.54). Yeah Seaver had a better ERA+ (140 to 134), but it's not like the voters consider that, especially in 1981. A lower superficial ERA is what they care about. Valenzuela also had a better WHIP than Seaver and almost 100 more strikeouts than Seaver (Seaver didn't even break 90 despite pitching 167 innings). Valenzuela also had being an exciting rookie phenom and a winning LA Dodger team going for him, which is a bigger bonus than being old news and playing on a good team in Cincinnati, which is what Seaver was doing that year.
    And I don't have EITHER of them in '81

    Leave a comment:


  • DoubleX
    replied
    Originally posted by Calif_Eagle
    Perhaps a poll or a year-by-year election among all interested Baseball Fever members is called for to settle the question ? Many of the years surely feature some very heated and close competition. And we all know the best pitcher in a given year doesnt always necessarily win the award (see 1981 Seaver 14-2 W-L vs. Valenzuela 13-7 W-L just as one possible example.) I noticed the list on the link often gave reasons to steer away from someone that might have been the highest profile candidate in a given year.
    In Valenzuela's defense, he actually did have a slightly lower ERA (2.48 to 2.54). Yeah Seaver had a better ERA+ (140 to 134), but it's not like the voters consider that, especially in 1981. A lower superficial ERA is what they care about. Valenzuela also had a better WHIP than Seaver and almost 100 more strikeouts than Seaver (Seaver didn't even break 90 despite pitching 167 innings). Valenzuela also had being an exciting rookie phenom and a winning LA Dodger team going for him, which is a bigger bonus than being old news and playing on a good team in Cincinnati, which is what Seaver was doing that year.

    Leave a comment:


  • dgarza
    replied
    1965

    Sandy Koufax was the best pick for the singular award and the NL award if given.

    In the AL, I have Mel Stottlemyre only as good as Mudcat Grant (both tied no better than 3rd).
    When looking to the award, I can only see 2 Cleveland pitchers who are mostly in the running. Sonny Siebert gets my 2nd place vote and Sam McDowell gets 1st place by almost a mile.

    Leave a comment:


  • RuthMayBond
    replied
    Originally posted by Baseball Guru
    You'd pick Wynn over Score in "56"?

    Identical records, identical WHIP but Score's hits to IP are gaudy.. He gave up 162 hits in 249 IP and struck out 263.... Wynn gave up 233 hits in 277 IP with 158 K's....
    It's really close, and TB5 has Lemon over both of them

    <In 1958, I am confused... You think Ford should have won it over Turley? I was thinking this thread was more of who the pitcher in the other league would have won it... So it would have been a NL pitcher...>

    My bad, Spahn

    <Same with "59">

    My bad, SJones

    <Bunning in 1960? His overall #'s were good but he was 3 games under .500 and the rest of his overall #'s weren't gaudy enough to warrant a pitcher winning the Cy Young with a losing record over a guy that won over 20 games unless you are now referring to an AL pitcher... I just think there is some confusion here...>

    With you? Law won the NL CY so we're looking for the AL candidate. Bunning led the AL in ERA+ & was only 22 IP behind the IP leader.

    <I still think Spahn was better than O'Toole in "61".>

    Spahn only had a ten-IP advantage but O'Toole had a seven point ERA+ lead.

    <"65" you McDowell had a very good season, epecially from an ERA standpoint but I'd still go with Mel who led the AL in IP and complete games and was 2nd in wins and shutouts..>

    Stottlemyre 129 ERA+
    McDowell 160 ERA+
    Not even that close. Gotta stop looking at team stats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Baseball Guru
    replied
    Originally posted by LouGehrig
    The Marichal case is amazing. One of the greatest pitchers of all time never came close to winning a Cy Young Award.

    His downfall was playing during the same time as Koufax, Gibson and Seaver

    Leave a comment:


  • Baseball Guru
    replied
    Originally posted by RuthMayBond
    I might disagree with almost every one
    56-EWynn
    58-Ford
    59-Wilhelm
    60-Bunning
    61-O'Toole
    62-Kaat
    63-GPeters
    64-Drysdale
    65-SMcDowell
    You'd pick Wynn over Score in "56"?

    Identical records, identical WHIP but Score's hits to IP are gaudy.. He gave up 162 hits in 249 IP and struck out 263.... Wynn gave up 233 hits in 277 IP with 158 K's....

    In 1958, I am confused... You think Ford should have won it over Turley? I was thinking this thread was more of who the pitcher in the other league would have won it... So it would have been a NL pitcher...

    Same with "59"

    Bunning in 1960? His overall #'s were good but he was 3 games under .500 and the rest of his overall #'s weren't gaudy enough to warrant a pitcher winning the Cy Young with a losing record over a guy that won over 20 games unless you are now referring to an AL pitcher... I just think there is some confusion here...

    I still think Spahn was better than O'Toole in "61".

    I also think Terry was better than Kaat in "62"...

    I can agree on Peters over Ford in "63"

    In "64" I guess you really couldn't go wrong with Koufax or Drysdale... Both had great seasons... Koufax's #'s based on his IP are great but Drysdale was a horse with over 300 IP...

    "65" you McDowell had a very good season, epecially from an ERA standpoint but I'd still go with Mel who led the AL in IP and complete games and was 2nd in wins and shutouts..

    I'd love to hear your arguements for the pitchers you choose...

    Leave a comment:


  • LouGehrig
    replied
    It would be fascinating to go through 1967-2005 and see who would have won if there had been only ONE winner, as was the situation from 1956-1966.

    How many Cy Young Awards would Clemens have won? And Randy Johnson?

    The Marichal case is amazing. One of the greatest pitchers of all time never came close to winning a Cy Young Award.

    Leave a comment:


  • Calif_Eagle
    replied
    Perhaps a poll or a year-by-year election among all interested Baseball Fever members is called for to settle the question ? Many of the years surely feature some very heated and close competition. And we all know the best pitcher in a given year doesnt always necessarily win the award (see 1981 Seaver 14-2 W-L vs. Valenzuela 13-7 W-L just as one possible example.) I noticed the list on the link often gave reasons to steer away from someone that might have been the highest profile candidate in a given year.

    Leave a comment:

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