Where does Tim Raines rate in LF?

[baseballPAP]

I have him probably higher than a lot of people, in at #7. I'll run down some of his particulars(mostly for you Bill )
23 years, played in 4 decades. (5 of those years can be pretty much thrown out due to limited PT)
13 seasons over .285 BA
11 years 40+ steals
12 seasons over .380 OBP
Excellent OFer, sub par arm, speed to burn
Quiet team leader who never caused much of a stir
No MVP respect, but he was at least top 3 in 3 seasons, and top 10 probably in 6 or more.
Black ink doesn't do him justice...he was a good average hitter but played at the same time as Tony Gwynn. Not a big HR guy, but managed 170 for his career. Good extra base gap type power.
Career top 100 in: G, AB, R, H, TB, BB, SB(#5), RC, Int. walks??

The guy was about as underrated as anyone during his career. He played in relative anonymity in Montreal, then in CHicago. Did manage to get a ring with the Yanks in '96.

Discuss

[KCGHOST]

I have him about 10th to 12th.

[The Dude]

I don't want to say much about Raines, cause whatever I say will be completely jumbled as I'm changed my mind over Raines more than any other player I have in my HOF. I once had him as high as 8th and as low as 19th. However, I have him 15th right now and to be honest, I think anyone from my 11th to 15th slots could move around and it wouldn't trouble me much.

those 5 are Belle, Magee, Minoso, Raines, and Wheat.

[RuthMayBond]

I have him at 9th (if I don't rank Stearnes or Suttles, or rank them lower than Raines)

[leecemark]

--I've got a pretty tight cluster from 8-15. Raines is part of it and probably closer to the front than the back of the group.

[Edgartohof]

Raines was great on the bases, leading the league in that categorie 5 consecutive years, but that was overshadowed by the 100+ SB seasons put up at the same time by Rickey Henderson and later by Vince Coleman, though he still averaged over 50 SB's a year, and had 6 consecutive seasons with 70+ SB's, and an incredible but much overlooked 90 SB's in 1983, due to the 108 SB's that season by Rickey Henderson.

He also was quite capable of hitting over .300, especially in the earlier part of his career, including hitting .320 or better from 1985-1987, winning the 1986 NL Batting Title, and carried a .294 BA for his career, which as mentioned, lasted 23 years, in which he ended up with 2605 hits, good for 68th all-time.

I personally don't have a spot for him, all I know is that he is out of my top 10, but I could see him around 15th.

[baseballPAP]

Also stole at an 85% success rate, I believe highest among the top ten (among the guys with complete lines anyway...Cobb Hamilton and Latham more than likely got thrown out A LOT more).

[538280]

I have Raines 5th among LFers, right behind the big 4 (Bonds, Williams, Henderson, Musial). He's one of the most underrated players around here IMO, and if you look at him it's easy to see why.

1. He's a leadoff man. Leadoff men are always underrated. Their skills are subtle, don't jump right out at you on the stat sheet, but a good leadoff man is often just as important as a slugger, because you need someone to set the table. Raines was the 2nd best leadoff man of all time, behind only his contemporary Rickey Henderson. He did everything Rickey did, just not quite as well.

2. He played in the decade that was real, real hard to dominate, the 1980s. I suspect many people here don't really appreciate how great Raines was at his peak. He didn't dominate his league to great proportions, but that's because the league was simply so strong. Raines was the best player in the NL in the mid 1980s. I'd bet most of you don't realize Raines won three Win Shares MVPs in his career. He was, in context, an extremely dominant player.

3. He played in Montreal in his peak. The Montreal Expos, even when they were moderately successful, were always outside the radar screen of the mainstream American media. Leadoff men are underrated enough as it is, and being a leadoff man in Montreal, well, you're lucky if you get any attention. Even if you're the best player in the league by objective measures, you really think anyone's willing to accept that little leadoff man out in Montreal is the best player in the league?

All these things cloud people's image of Raines, and make them think he's a lesser star. Really, he's a truly great player and should be a first ballot HoFer.

[Cyclone792]

I've got Raines 8th. After the top four, my LF rankings are Yaz, Jackson, Simmons, Raines, Stearnes and Stargell to round out my top 10.

[SABR Matt]

I have Raines 7th among players commonly thought of as left fielders.

Behind:

Bonds
Williams
Musial
Henderson
Yastrzemski
Delahanty

Those seven (including Raines) are 3rd, 4th, 9th, 12th, 26th, 28th, and 39th all time among all players (including one pitcher who squeaked into my top 30 most valuable players of all time...Walter Johnson...and including one catcher (Carlton Fisk) who found his way in front of Raines due to the 35% mark-up on value placed on catchers to account for the diliterious effects of catching on the body).

Raines is definitely one of the most underrated players in the game's history.

Note...by the numbers, Henderson is actually 5th all time, 3rd among left fielders, but I knocked him down because I believe my present linear weights overvalue stolen bases...one could make a case that Raines is similarly being inflated in the numbers...I just don't know by how much right now

[yanks0714]

Underrated. Over shadowed by what Rickey Henderson accomplished during much the same time frame. But Tim was doing pretty much everthing Rickey did in the other league although not quite at the same level.

His best years were played in the relative, okay, almost total obscurity of Montreal. The Expos had some darn good players in the early mid-eighties and Tim Raines was among their best if not their best player.

He bounced around a little after that with the White Sox and Yankees. He had a looong career although that is offset by being pretty much a part timer near the end.
Also, in mid-career Tim had some drug problems if I remember correctly.

In the NL, I have him as the 4th best NL LF'er in history, behind Musial, Bonds, and Delahanty but ahead of Stargell, Medwick, Billy Williams, Lou Brock, Ralph Kiner, and whoever else.

Overall, I have him beind the 3 NLers plus Williams, Henderson, Simmons. I just can't pick between Raines, Yaz and Joe Jackson as to where exactly he fits.

Is he HOF material? Not sure. I wouldn't be put out if he didn't make {or} if he did make it.

[SABR Matt]

He is most assuredly HOF worthy...though I doubt whether people will recognize it.

[Chisox]

He is most assuredly HOF worthy...though I doubt whether people will recognize it.

WOW! I've got him 13th. I thought he'd be closer to a top 10 on mine than that. That makes have to reconsider my rankings.

[barzilla]

I also have him rated seventh. Great minds think alike. He is a mere two index points ahead of Al Simmons, so it would be easy to flipflop the two if the need arises, but I'm not inclined to go against my results at this point. I do think he was underrated and I don't think the index is skewed at all towards stolen bases. Henderson finishes fourth among left fielders for example.

[baseballPAP]

I also have him rated seventh. Great minds think alike. He is a mere two index points ahead of Al Simmons, so it would be easy to flipflop the two if the need arises, but I'm not inclined to go against my results at this point. I do think he was underrated and I don't think the index is skewed at all towards stolen bases. Henderson finishes fourth among left fielders for example.

Since I also have him 7th, I guess I have a great mind as well. Good company to keep IMO.