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  • Originally posted by Badge714 View Post
    Nice photo. I have a 35" Babe Ruth Model that I purchased from H&B. I sure wish they made a facsimile of that 36" fifty-four ounce monster.
    They do,but it won`t fit in your and anybody`s house!LOL.[ATTACH]
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
      Fenway a great hitters park for lefties? Since when?

      Ruth never got to experience the Fenway Williams enjoyed. They shorted the RC field fence by about 30 feet and center by about 100 feet. I would actually challenge you to find any lefty, who hit with the dimensions Ruth faced, that produced better slugging numbers in Fenway

      Maybe we should post the field layout differences to put it into perspective. My guess...if Williams had to hit in Ruth's Fenway, his average drops 30 points, and he loses about 70 home homers...just a guess though.
      I thought it was common knowledge that the Fenway Park that Ruth played in was the size of a national park. From 1914...

      Fenway-park-1914-world-series-braves.jpg
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

      Comment


      • Fenway over the years. I see more than a few changes in dimensions of only couple or few feet.
        My guess, no actual changes in the dimension on those so small. Probably remeasured and a different figure arrived at.

        There is another later park diagram at Clem's parks.
        One look at the configuration on the right side explains why so many "left handed" Bosox hit so many more doubles at home, they didn't need the wall.
        Over the years I've heard a few opposing team players speak about the area from the line to deep right center, difficult to run down drives.
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • Yeah, a good one! Smelser has a photo of the bat he used in 1920 (page 186 of paperback). It's next to a photo of Cobb's bat which was 34 & 1/2" in length and weighing 36 ounces. Ruth's bat in the photo must be at least 36" in length. It has a very gradual taper toward the handle, certainly less of a taper than modern bats. Smelser: "Ruth's heaviest useful bat weighed 47 ounces. In 1920 he ordered several bats that weighed 54 ounces - for reasons unknown - but never repeated the order. . . . In 1920 Ruth's usual bat weighed 44 ounces and was 35 inches long." Hard to believe he could get around on a fast ball with such a large bat, but he most certainly did, hitting fifty-four home runs (twenty-nine at home and twenty-five on the road). Fifty-eight percent of his hits were for extra bases. He had 150 bases on balls and was hit three times. That's 153 passes. He had 136 RBIs. Smelser notes that he would have eclipsed Cobb's 1911 record of 144 had he not had so many free passes.

          Originally posted by Nimrod View Post
          They do,but it won`t fit in your and anybody`s house!LOL.[ATTACH]
          ". . . the Ruth, the whole Ruth and nothing but the Ruth . . ."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
            I thought it was common knowledge that the Fenway Park that Ruth played in was the size of a national park. From 1914...

            [ATTACH]121473[/ATTACH]
            What a great pic Adam!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Badge714 View Post
              Yeah, a good one! Smelser has a photo of the bat he used in 1920 (page 186 of paperback). It's next to a photo of Cobb's bat which was 34 & 1/2" in length and weighing 36 ounces. Ruth's bat in the photo must be at least 36" in length. It has a very gradual taper toward the handle, certainly less of a taper than modern bats. Smelser: "Ruth's heaviest useful bat weighed 47 ounces. In 1920 he ordered several bats that weighed 54 ounces - for reasons unknown - but never repeated the order. . . . In 1920 Ruth's usual bat weighed 44 ounces and was 35 inches long." Hard to believe he could get around on a fast ball with such a large bat, but he most certainly did, hitting fifty-four home runs (twenty-nine at home and twenty-five on the road). Fifty-eight percent of his hits were for extra bases. He had 150 bases on balls and was hit three times. That's 153 passes. He had 136 RBIs. Smelser notes that he would have eclipsed Cobb's 1911 record of 144 had he not had so many free passes.
              Hey Badge, you talkin about this?

              http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...ser#post635424

              Comment


              • Here are some numbers, Ruth The Pitcher VS. a few of the games top hitters. Many complete games, but on occasion, where Ruth didn't go the distance, or came in relief, I have used The Babe in Red Stockings, and a few factors to draw a logical conclusion. Descriptions are there for the reader to make up their own mind. If there was ever a toss up, I gave the edge to the hitter.

                Going to look into a couple more hitters too. If anyone wants to tally these up, and check my work (not the greatest statistician) I'd appreciate it.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Shoeless Joe Jackson vs Ruth, the pitcher

                6/17/16 – Ruth CG, Jackson 3-3, all singles, BB, RBI
                7/11/16 – Ruth CG, Jackson 0-4
                9/17/16 – Ruth CG, Jackson 1-4, single, R
                6/16/17 – Ruth CG, Jackson 3-5, 2B, 2 singles, RBI, R
                7/19/17 – Ruth CG, Jackson 1-4, single, R
                7/30/17 - Ruth CG, Jackson 1-4, 3B, R, 2 K’s
                8/20/17 – Ruth relief, Jackson 0-1, K
                8/21/17 – Ruth CG, Jackson 0-3, Sacrifice
                9/24/17 – Ruth CG, Jackson 1-4, single, K
                5/15 19 – Ruth relieves in 2nd inning, goes 11 innings for the 6-5 win. Starter Bush goes 1 inning, faces 3 hitters and Shoeless hits cleanup. All PA vs Ruth. Jackson 1-3, single, 3 BB
                6/10/19 – Ruth CG, Jackson 1-4, single, R

                44 PA - 4 BB - 1 Sac

                10 singles, 1 double, 1 triple

                39 AB, 12 H = .307 avg

                12 H, 4 BB = 16 times on/44PA = .363 OBP

                15 TB/39 AB = .384 SA


                .307/.363/.384

                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Tris Speaker vs Ruth, the pitcher

                5/10/16 - Ruth, CG, Speaker 2-3, 2 singles, BB
                6/5/16 - Ruth, CG, Speaker 0-4
                7/7/16 - Ruth, 7 IP, Speaker 1-3, single
                7/25/16 - Ruth 7.1 IP, Speaker 3-3, 2B, 2 singles, BB
                8/19/16 - Ruth 6 IP, only gives up 3 hits but tweaks a muscle, has to come out. Speaker 0-2, BB, Sac. The sac
                came off Ruth, only question is who the walk came off. I think Speaker 0-2, Sac off Ruth.
                9/12/16 - Ruth, CG, Speaker 1-3, single, BB
                5/17/17 - Ruth comes out with two outs in the 5th inning, faces 27 hitters. Speaker 3-5, single, 2B, 3B. Reliever
                Leonard only allowed 3 hits rest of way, facing 13 hitters. I think Speaker 2-3, 2B, 3B off Ruth.
                6/1/17 - Ruth, CG, Speaker 0-3, HBP
                7/7/17 - Ruth, CG, Speaker 0-4
                8/3/17 - Ruth, CG, Speaker 1-4, 2B
                8/4/18 - Ruth, CG (12 IP), Speaker, 0-5
                8/17/18 - Ruth, CG, Speaker 1-4, 2B
                8/20/18 - Ruth 7 IP, reliever faces 7 hitters. Speaker 2-5, 2B, single. I think Speaker 2-4 off Ruth.
                6/14/19 - Ruth, CG (13 IP), Speaker 0-6, BB
                7/17/19 - Ruth, CG, Speaker 0-3, BB

                61 PA, 54 AB, 5 BB, Sac, HBP

                7 singles, 5 doubles, 1 triple

                54 AB, 13 H = .240 avg

                13 H, 5 BB, HBP = 19 times on base/61 PA = .311 OBP

                20 TB, 54 AB = .370 SA


                .240/.311/.370


                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Eddie Collins vs Ruth, the pitcher

                6/17/16 - Ruth, CG, Collins 2-4, 2 singles, K
                7/11/16 - Ruth, CG, Collins 2-3, 2 singles, K
                9/17/16 - Ruth, CG, Collins 1-4, single
                5/18/17 - Ruth 2.1 IP, gives up 4 BB and 4 ER. Collins 0-3, 2 BB. I think Collins 0-1, BB off Ruth.
                6/16/17 - Ruth CG, Collins 1-4, single, Sac, 2 K's
                7/19/17 - Ruth CG, Collins 1-3, single, BB
                7/21/17 - Leonard starts, goes 9 IP, 8 H, 4 ER. Ruth relieves in 10th and has 6 IP. Game ends in tie after 15 innings. Collins 1-6, single, BB on the day. I think 4 PA off Leonard and 3 PA off Ruth and Collins 0-3 off Ruth.
                7/30/17 - Ruth CG, Collins 0-4
                8/21/17 - Ruth CG, Collins 3-4, single 2 doubles
                9/24/17 - Ruth CG, Collins 0-3, BB
                5/15/19 - Bush starts and goes 1 IP, facing 3 hitters, no hits. Collins is 0-1 off him. Ruth relieves in 2nd and goes 11 IP.
                Collins line is 2-6 with 2 singles, so 2-5, 2 singles off Ruth.
                6/10/19 - Ruth CG, Collins 0-3, BB

                46 PA, 41 AB 4 BB, 1 Sac

                10 singles, 2 doubles,

                41 AB, 12 H = .292 avg

                12 H, 4 BB = 16 times on base/46 PA = .347 OBP

                14 TB, 41 AB = .341 SA


                .292/.347/.341

                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                George Sisler vs Ruth, the pitcher

                7/15/16 - Ruth goes 6 IP, gives up 3 hits and faces 24 hitters. Sisler 1-3, 3B off Ruth.
                7/18/16 - Ruth CG, Sisler 2-3, 2 singles, Sac
                8/4/16 - Ruth 5 IP, 26 BF, reliever gives up 1 hit and has 11 BF in 3 innings.Sisler 1-3, single, Sac. I think
                Sisler 1-2, Sac off Ruth
                8/29/16 - Leonard starts, gives up 2 hits and 2 ER in the first. Ruth comes in with one out, and has 5 IP, giving up just
                1 hit. Mays relieves Ruth. Sisler was 1-4, single...part of that first inning rally off Leonard I'm guessing. I think Sisler faced Ruth twice
                and went 0-2.
                8/31/16 - Ruth CG, Sisler 2-4, 2 singles
                5/24/17 - Ruth CG, Sisler 0-4
                6/13/17 - Ruth CG, Sisler 2-4, 2 singles
                7/15/17 - Ruth CG, Sisler 2-4, 2B, single
                7/26/17 - Ruth CG, Sisler 1-4, single, BB, K
                7/17/18 - Ruth CG, Sisler 0-2, K (game called after 5 innings, thunder and lightning)
                7/29/18 - Ruth CG, Sisler 0-3, Sac
                8/01/18 - Ruth CG, Sisler 0-3, Sac, K
                8/24/18 - Ruth CG, Sisler 0-4, K
                5/20/19 - Ruth CG, Sisler 3-4, 2 doubles, single, BB
                6/20/19 - Ruth CG, Sisler 2-4, 2B, BB
                8/17/19 - Ruth CG, Sisler 0-3, BB, K

                61 PA, 53 AB, 4 BB, 4 Sac

                10 singles, 4 doubles, 1 triple

                53 AB, 15 H = .283 avg

                15 H, 4 BB = 19 times on base/61 PA = .311 OBP

                21 TB, 53 AB = .396 SA


                .283/.311/.396
                Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 03-09-2013, 10:53 AM.

                Comment


                • Ok, I have a handful of spitballers done. Next up are Quinn, Caldwell, Leonard.

                  SHOELESS or anyone else with time and access to more detailed game accounts. I have put dates in RED, that we could use further clarification on. Otherwise we are left to make educated guesses. I'd like to get that squared away before starting to tally up the numbers. Thank you in advance to anyone willing to help.
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Thought of a new project that might take awhile. Wanted to see how Ruth did against spitballers, specifically those who were grandfathered (and Cicotte). So far, it appears he was a bit human against them but lots of work to do. Only true reliable stats are CG or if we know he homered off them in relief.

                  Doc Ayers (1913-21) - ALL A.L.
                  Ray Caldwell (1910-21) ALL A.L.
                  Stan Coveleski (1912-28) ALL A.L.
                  Bill Doak (1912-29) ALL N.L.
                  Phil Douglas (1912-22) ALL N.L.
                  Red Faber (1914-33) ALL A.L.
                  Dana Fillingim (1915-25) ALL N.L. except 1915
                  Ray Fisher (1910-20) - A.L. 1910-17
                  Marvin Goodwin (1916-25) ALL N.L.
                  Burleigh Grimes (1916-34) ALL N.L. except 1934
                  Dutch Leonard (1913-25) ALL A.L.
                  Clarence Mitchell (1911-32) ALL N.L. except 1911
                  Jack Quinn (1909-33) ALL A.L. except 1931-33
                  Dick Rudolph (1910-27) ALL N.L.
                  Allan Russell (1915-25) ALL A.L.
                  Urban Shocker (1916-28) ALL A.L.
                  Allan Sothoron (1914-26) ALL A.L. except 1924-26

                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------


                  EDDIE CICOTTE

                  6/13/18 - Cicotte went 7 innings. Ruth was 1-3, single. BB, RBI, K

                  7/11/18 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 3-4 with 3 doubles, K, R

                  7/26/18 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 0-4, k

                  8/16/18 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 1-4, single

                  5/14/19 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 0-4, 2 K's

                  6/10/19 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 1-3, double, BB, K

                  7/13/19 - Cicotte in relief for last 2 innings. Ruth 2-5, triple, single, 4 RBI, K, 2 R

                  7/15/19 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 0-3, sac, RBI, 2 K's

                  8/2/19 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 0-4, RBI, K

                  8/14/19 - Cicotte only goes 2.1 innings. Gives up 8 hits, 2 BB and 9 runs (7 earned). Ruth hits a 2-run HR off Kerr in the 7th. His line for the game is 3-4, HR, 2 singles, 2 R, 3 RBI, BB. I think Ruth was either 1-1 with a walk off Cicotte or 1-2 with a BB off Cicotte.

                  8/15/19 - Cicotte throws 1.2 innings in relief for the win. Ruth was 1-4, double, BB, R, 2 K's.

                  9/19/19 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 1-4, double, 2 RBI, K

                  7/17/20 - Cicotte goes 5 innings giving up 8 runs (5 earned). Ruth's line is 3-5 with 2 doubles, single, 3 RBI, R

                  7/20/20 - Cicotte CG, Ruth 0-4, K

                  8/1/20 - Cicotte, CG, Ruth 0-3, BB, K

                  9/18/20 - Cicotte, CG, Ruth 1-4, single, BB, K, RBI

                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------


                  RED FABER

                  6/11/18 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-4, K

                  6/16/19 - Faber CG, Ruth 1-3, single, BB, R

                  6/12/19 - Faber goes 6 innings, gives up 4 ER all in the 6th. Ruth's line is 1-4, double, R, 2 RBI. I think this is 1-3, w/double off Faber.

                  7/13/19 - Faber goes into the 7th inning with one out. Red Sox don't score on relievers. Ruth's line is 2-5, triple, 4 RBI, 2 R, K. I think 2-4, triple, single, off Faber.

                  8/4/19 - Faber goes 7 innings, reliever goes 1 inning and has 3 BF. Ruth is 0-0, HBP, 3 BB. The HBP is from Faber and the reliever had no walks, so that is his line.

                  6/16/20 - Faber CG, Ruth 2-3, HR, triple, 2 BB, 2 R, 2 RBI

                  7/20/20 - Faber goes 8 innings. Ruth homers off him in 5th inning. Reliever Kerr walks two in the 9th. Ruth's line is 1-1, HR, 3 BB, RBI, 2 R

                  8/3/20 - Faber CG, Ruth 1-1, single, 3 BB

                  9/17/20 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-3, BB

                  5/18/21 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-5

                  6/18/21 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-3, BB, RBI, K

                  7/10/21 - Faber CG, Ruth 1-4, single, RBI

                  8/7/21 - Faber CG, Ruth 1-2, double, R

                  8/8/21 - Faber threw last 3 innings, gives up no hits and 3 BB with 14 BF. Ruth's line is 1-3, HR (off Kerr), 2 BB. I think Ruth 0-0, BB off Faber

                  8/18/21 - Faber goes 8 innings. Ruth hits 3-run HR off Faber in 7th inning and has 4 RBI for the game. Hodge comes in for the save, faces 3 hitter, has no R, BB, or K. Ruth's line is 1-3, HR, BB, R, 4 RBI, K. I think Ruth that is his line vs Faber in this game.

                  6/6/22 - Faber goes 8 innings. Reliever faces 3 hitters. We'll be conservative and assume reliever didn't face Ruth, so 0-4, 2 K's off Faber.

                  7/16/22 - Faber CG, Ruth 1-4, single

                  8/20/22 - Faber CG, Ruth 3-5, 2 HR, single, 5 RBI, 2 R, K

                  9/13/22 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-4, 2 K, R

                  5/20/23 - Faber CG, Ruth 3-4, double, 2 singles, RBI, K

                  6/6/23 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-2, 2 BB, K

                  7/11/23 - Faber goes 7 innings. Ruth's line 4-4, 4 singles, 2 R, RBI. To be conservative, we'll assume Ruth faced the reliever and got a single, so 3-3, 3 singles off Faber

                  7/29/23 - Faber CG, Ruth 3-3, triple, 2 doubles, BB, RBI, R

                  8/20/23 - Faber goes 3 innings, gives up 5 runs (4 earned). Faced 16 hitters so Ruth probably had 2 PA against him. Ruth's line is 2-4, triple, single, sac, BB, K, 2 R, 3 RBI. Tough to call this one. Yanks scored 4 in the 1st inning and 1 in the 3rd. I think Ruth hit his triple in the first and walked in the 3rd, but once again, we'll be conservative and say his triple came later, so 1-1, single, BB.

                  7/9/24 - Ruth doesn't start. Faber takes an 8-3 lead into the ninth. Ruth pinch hits in the 9th and hits a 2 RBI single off Faber. Connally comes in, faces two hitters, gives up a BB and no hits. Probably a double play ball ends the game. Ruth 1-1, single, 2 RBI off Faber.

                  7/28/24 - Faber goes 8 innings, 9 H, 6 R (5 ER). Reliever faces 7 hitters, has 0 K's. Ruth's line is 1-5, single, 3 K's. I think 1-4, single, 3 K's off Faber.

                  9/15/24 - Faber goes 8 innings. Reliever Connally gives up 0 H, 1 BB, 0 K in the 9th, faces 3 batters. Ruth is 1-3, single, BB, K. We know the K and single came off Faber. Looking at the box score, everyone after Pipp (in the #4 hole) only had 3 PA, and the first four hitters had 4 PA. That means the reliever got Dugan out, walked Ruth, and Pipp grounded into double play. So Ruth's line off Faber is 1-3, single, K

                  6/21/25 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-4, K

                  7/13/25 - Faber CG, Ruth 1-4, single, R, 2 K's

                  8/26/25 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-4

                  5/15/26 - Faber goes 2 innings, gives up 8 hits and 7 ER, 0 BB and 1 K with 14 BF, so Ruth got up twice off him. Reliever has 2 BB, 0 K. Ruth's line is 3-4, HR (2-run homer in 8th inning), 2 singles, 3 RBI, 2 R, BB, K. We know his HR, BB came off reliever and K was off Faber. I think 1-2, single, K

                  8/2/26 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-3, BB, K

                  9/20/26 - Faber CG, Ruth 2-3, 2 singles, BB, R

                  5/9/27 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-3, BB

                  9/17/27 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-1, 3 BB, R

                  5/6/28 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-2, 2 BB

                  6/10/28 - Faber goes 5.2 innings, giving up 9 hits and 5 ER. Ruth homers off him in 5th inning (and off a reliever in the 9th). Ruth is 2-4, 2 HR, BB, K. At least 3 PA off Faber, we will say 1-2, HR, BB, K.

                  7/22/27 - Faber CG, Ruth 0-4, BB, K

                  8/15/27 - Faber CG, Ruth 1-3, HR, BB, RBI, R

                  9/20/28 - Faber CG. Ruth 0-5, R

                  5/4/29 - 5/4/29 - Faber goes 4.2 innings and faces 23 batters. He gives up one BB, 8 hits and 6 ER. Ruth's line is 3-5, HR, double, single, 4 RBI, 3 R. His 2-run homer came in the 7th. He had 3 PA against Faber. If I had to guess, I'd say Ruth went 2-3 with an RBI double and RBI single, hit his HR in the 7th, and got out in the 9th. Once again however, to be conservative, we'll apply the single elsewhere, so 1-3, double off Faber.

                  7/13/29 - Faber CG, 0-4, K

                  8/20/29 - Faber CG, 0-5, K

                  9/22/29 - Faber CG, 1-5, single, K

                  5/5/30 - Faber goes 7 innings. Caraway comes in for 1 inning, faces 4 hitters. Ruth's line is 0-4, 3 K's. Looking at the box score, the eighth hitter had 3 PA and everyone above him had 4 PA. So Caraway faced the #4-7 hitters, meaning Ruth didn't face him. 0-4, 3 K's.

                  7/14/30 - Faber goes 5 innings, gives up 6 BB, 6 runs (4 earned). Ruth's line 1-4, BB, 2 RBI. No relievers had any ER. Yanks scored two in the 3rd inning. I think Ruth K'd off Faber in the 1st inning and had his 2 RBI single in the 3rd, and probably walked in the fifth.

                  8/17/30 - Faber CG (5 innings), Ruth 0-1, BB

                  9/21/30 - 9/21/30 - Faber comes in for 7-9 innings. He walks 3, gives up 8 hits, 4 ER, no K's. Ruth's line is 3-5, 3 singles, 2 RBI, K. We know the K wasn't against Faber, so that leaves 3-4, 3 singles with 2 of those PA against Faber. To be conservative, we'll say 1-2, single.

                  6/13/31 - Faber pitches only the last inning. Gives up 3 hits, 2 ER and faces 6 hitters, allowing no BB. Ruth's line is 1-3, single, 2 BB. The #8 hitter had 4 PA and everyone above him had 5 PA. So Faber faced #2-7 hitters, which includes Ruth, who didn't have an RBI or a R. I think he's 0-1 off Faber.

                  7/26/31 - Faber CG, Ruth 3-4, 3 singles, BB, RBI, K

                  7/29/31 - Faber goes 6 innings, Ruth hits 2-run HR off him in 3rd inning. Reliever has no K's. Ruth's line is 2-5, HR, single, K, 3 RBI, R. I think Ruth had RBI single in 1st inning, hit 2-run HR in 3rd, then K'd against Faber before he left game. So 2-3, HR, single, 3 RBI, K off Faber.

                  8/23/31 - Faber only gets through 1st inning. He gives up 4 ER, no walks, a HR, and faces 8 hitters. Ruth's line is 2-4, HR, single, 2 BB, 3 RBI, R. Faber didn't walk anyone, and Ruth's 2-run HR came in the 2nd inning off Moore. BBref shows no runs were scored in the first, so I'm confused. Maybe Faber pitched in the 2nd and couldn't get an out.

                  8/26/31 - Faber goes 7 innings. Ruth's line is 0-4, BB. Reliever faced 11 hitters in two innings. I think Ruth 0-3, BB off Faber.

                  8/6/32 - Faber goes 8 innings. Reliever pitches the 9th and faces 6 hitters, ending with the pitcher, which means he faced #4-9 hitters, starting with Gehrig. All PA vs Faber, Ruth's line is 2-4, double

                  5/28/33 - Faber relieves in 7th inning. Ruth hits a solo HR off him. 1-1, HR, R, RBI

                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------


                  ALLAN SOTHORON

                  6/14/18 - Sothoron CG, Ruth 2-4, double, single, 3 RBI

                  7/29/18 - Sothoron 8 IP, reliever gave up no hits or runs. Ruth 1-4, triple, RBI

                  8/21/18 - Sothoron goes 7 innings, 2 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 2 K. Reliever gave up no BB. Ruth's line is 1-2, single, sac, RBI, BB, K. I think 3 of the 4 PA came against Sothoron, one being a walk. To be conservative, I'd say BB, sac RBI, and K were against Sothoron, so 0-1, BB, RBI, K.

                  6/18/19 - Sothoron CG, Ruth 2-3, 2 singles, BB, K, R

                  7/9/19 - Sothoron CG, Ruth 0-3, 2 BB, 2 K's

                  8/11/19 - Sothoron CG, Ruth 1-3, single, BB, RBI

                  8/17/19 - Sothoron CG, Ruth 0-4, Babe pitched CG 2-1 victory

                  7/23/21 - Sothoron CG, Ruth 1-4, single

                  7/31/21 - Sothoron 5 IP, 10 H, 6 ER, 4 BB. Ruth homers off reliever. His line 3-4, HR, 3B, single, BB, 4 RBI, 2 R

                  8/25/21 - Sothoron CG, Ruth 2-3, 2B, single, 2 BB, K, R



                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------


                  URBAN SHOCKER

                  6/16/18 - Shocker CG, Ruth 0-1, 3 BB, K

                  6/19/19 - Shocker CG, Ruth 2-3, double, single, BB, R

                  7/10/19 - Shocker goes 7 innings, 9 H, 3 ER, 0 BB, K. Two relievers have 1 BB and 0 K. Ruth goes 2-4, HR (off Shocker), single, K, RBI, R. Only thing for certain is the HR and the K were against Shocker. So we'll say 1-2, HR, K.

                  8/9/19 - Shocker comes in for last 4 innings. Ruth is 1-5, triple, R, RBI. No way to tell who the triple was off.

                  8/12/19 - Shocker CG, Ruth 2-5, 2 singles, K, RBI

                  8/17/19 - Shocker goes 5 innings, gives up 5 ER. Ruth hits 2-run HR off him in 1st inning. Ruth's line is 2-4, HR, double, BB, 2 R, 2 RBI. No way to tell who double came off, but Shocker didn't walk anyone so 1-1, HR, R, RBI.

                  6/20/20 - Shocker goes 8 IP, 8 H, 4 ER, 5 BB, 6 K's. Reliever faces 4 hitters, gives up 0 hits and only has 1 BB. Ruth's line, 1-3, single, 2 BB, K, R. The for sure known is Ruth at least 1-1, single, BB off Shocker.

                  6/23/20 - Shocker goes 8 IP, 2 BB. Reliever faces 5 hitters, allows 1 H, 1 BB. Ruth hit solo HR off Shocker in 6th inning. His line is 3-4, HR, 2 singles, BB, RBI, 2 R. The for sure known is Ruth at least 2-2, HR, single. If he faced the reliever in 9th, it was either his other single or his BB.

                  7/13/20 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-4, single, RBI, 3 K (Shocker had 14 K's)

                  7/28/20 - Shocker CG, Ruth 0-1, 3 BB, K

                  7/31/20 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-3, HR, BB, RBI, K, 2 R

                  5/22/21 - Shocker CG, Ruth 0-3, K, 2 BB

                  5/25/21 - Shocker CG, Ruth 2-4, HR, 2B, HBP, 3 RBI, K, R

                  6/2/21 - Shocker goes 5 IP, 6 H, 7 R (5 ER), 4 BB, 3 K's, faces 27 hitters. Relievers don't allow a hit or a run but have 4 walks between them. Ruth's line is 1-2, 3B, 3 BB, 2 R. We can safely say that Ruth had 3 PA against Shocker, which means his known stats are at least the triple and a BB. 1-1, 3B, BB. That leaves an 0-1 and 2 BB on the table as unknowns.

                  6/5/21 - Shocker CG, Ruth 2-3, 3B, 2B, BB, RBI

                  7/13/21 - Shocker gets yanked in the 4th inning after facing 23 hitters, giving up 9 hits and 7 ER. Ruth's line is 1-5, single, HBP, 2 R, RBI, K. Ruth probably got up 3 times off Urban, as he had 6 PA in the entire game. Shocker had 2 HBP, one Ruth and the other Fewster. No reliever had a K, so that's at least a HBP and a K against Shocker.

                  7/27/21 - Shocker CG, Ruth 0-2, sac, 2 BB, RBI

                  8/21/21 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-2, 2B, 3 BB, RBI

                  9/16/21 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-4, HR, RBI, R, 3 K's

                  9/27/21 - Shocker CG, Ruth 0-3, BB

                  5/20/22 - Shocker 8 IP, Ruth 0-4, K. Lefty Bill Bayne pitched the ninth. Could be 0-3, K off Shocker.

                  5/23/22 - Shocker CG, Ruth 0-3, BB, K

                  6/10/22 - Shocker goes 3 IP, 8 H, 8 R, 2 BB, 19 BF. Ruth's line is 3-4, HR, 2 singles, BB. He homered off Shocker in the third, not sure what his first PA resulted in. I think either a single or a BB. To be conservative, we'll call it 1-1, HR, BB off Shocker.

                  6/11/22 - Shocker goes 7 IP, 11 H, 8 R, 6 BB, 36 BF. Lefty Bill Bayne relieves in 8th and 9th, faces 8 hitters. Ruth is 0-3, 2 BB. I think Ruth was 0-1, 2 BB off Shocker.

                  7/11/22 - Shocker CG. Ruth, 0-4, K, R

                  7/14/22 - Shocker 7 IP. Reliever goes 1 IP with 3 BF. Ruth 3-4, 3 singles

                  7/25/22 - Shocker CG, Ruth 0-3, BB

                  8/25/22 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-4, single, 2 K's

                  8/28/22 - Shocker CG, Ruth 0-5, K

                  9/16/22 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-4, single, K

                  5/17/23 - Shocker goes 2.1 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 0 BB, 15 BF. Ruth goes 2-4, HR (off Bayne), single, BB. His HR and BB were later in the game. I think he got up twice off Shocker and was 1-2, single.

                  7/6/23 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-5, single, 2 K's

                  8/6/23 - Shocker CG, Ruth 2-4, 2 doubles, K, 3 RBI

                  8/15/23 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-2, HR, 2 BB, 2 RBI, R

                  5/14/24 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-2, single, 2 BB, K

                  6/7/24 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-3, triple, BB, 2 K's

                  7/12/24 - Shocker CG, Ruth 3-4, 3 singles

                  7/15/24 - Shocker enters the 8th inning up 4-2. He can't get an out and gives up 3 runs. Bayne comes in, faces 3 hitters. Browns get blanked in top of the 9th, game over. Ruth is 1-3, single, BB, K. The BB and K were off Shocker, and I think the single was too.

                  8/1/24 - Shocker goes 7 IP, 9 H, 3 R, 2 BB. Pruett pitches 8th and 9th, 3 H, O BB. Ruth is 3-3, 3 singles, 2 BB. I think Ruth singled off Pruett, so 2-2, 2 singles, 2 BB off Shocker.

                  8/13/24 - Shocker goes 7 IP, 8 H, 2 R, 0 BB. Pruett relieves in 8th. 3 BF, 0 H, 0 BB. Ruth 1-4, double. Given how often Pruett was brought in just to face Ruth, I think Ruth was 1-3, double off Shocker.

                  9/17/24 - Shocker CG, Ruth 1-4, single, BB, 2 R

                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------


                  STAN COVELESKI

                  6/06/18 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 0-4, BB, RBI, K

                  6/09/18 -

                  7/08/18 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 2-4, triple, BB, RBI

                  8/02/18 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 2-4, 2 singles

                  8/19/18 -

                  6/16/19 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-3, single

                  7/19/19 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-3, double, 2 BB, K

                  8/08/19 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 0-2, 2 BB, HBP, R

                  9/12/19 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 2-4, double, single 2 RBI, R

                  5/15/20 - Coveleski, CG, Ruth 0-1, BB, HBP, K

                  6/14/20 - Coveleski, CG, Ruth 0-1, 3 BB

                  7/22/20 - Coveleski goes 1 inning. Gives up leadoff HR, faces 10 hitters, gives up another HR to leadoff hitter. Ruth 2-3, 2 doubles, BB, K, 2 RBI, R. I think Ruth 1-1, double off Stan.

                  8/12/20 - Coveleski goes 7 IP, 5 H, 4 ER, 3 BB. Reliever faces 7 hitters, 1 H, 0 BB. Ruth is 0-2, 2 BB, K, 2 R. I think 0-1, 2 BB off Stan.

                  8/16/20 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-4, single, K, R

                  9/09/20 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-2, HR, 3 BB, RBI, 2 R

                  5/15/21 - Coveleski 3 IP, 20 BF. Ruth 0-3, 2 BB (only walks of game for Yanks), K, R. I think Ruth 0-1, BB off Stan.

                  6/07/21 - Coveleski 3.1 IP, 20 BF, 4 BB, relievers have 2 BB. Ruth 0-1, 3 BB. I think Ruth 0-0, 2 BB off Stan.

                  7/20/21 - Coveleski goes 7 IP, 8 H, 3 BB, HBP. Reliever faces 8 hitters, 2 H, 0 BB, HBP. Ruth goes 1-2, single, BB, 2 HBP, 3 R. I think Ruth is 1-1, single, BB, HBP off Stan.

                  7/30/21 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 2-3, HR, single, BB, RBI, R

                  8/24/21 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-3, single, 2 BB, R

                  9/23/21 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 3-3, 3 doubles, BB, RBI, 3 R

                  9/26/21 - Coveleski goes 2.1 IP, faces 14 hitters. Ruth hits solo shot off him in 1st inning. Babe was 3-3, 2 HR, double. Ruth 1-1, HR, R, RBI off Stan.

                  6/18/22 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 0-2, 2 BB

                  7/08/22 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-2, single, 2 BB

                  8/02/22 - Coveleski 8 IP, 9 H, 5 R (2 ER), 0 BB, 5 K. Reliever has 3 BF, 1 H, 0 K's. Ruth is 3-4, 2 doubles, single, K, R. I think that's his line off Stan.

                  8/23/22 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 0-4, K

                  5/08/23 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 0-2, BB, R

                  6/10/23 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 0-2, 3 BB, R

                  6/12/23 - Coveleski comes in relief, has 14 BF. Ruth homered earlier in the game off Uhle. He is 2-2, HR, single, 2 BB, 3 RBI, R. His one PA off Stan was either BB or single.

                  7/15/23 - Coveleski goes 1.2 IP with 11 BF, 6 H, 0 BB. Ruth is 1-2, single, 2 BB. I think 0-0, BB off Stan.

                  7/16/23- Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-4, single

                  6/16/24 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-2, single, 3 BB

                  7/19/24 - Coveleski 7 IP, 11 H, 9 R (4 ER), 4 BB, 1 K. Reliever goes 1 IP, 4 BF, 1 H, 1 ER, 1 BB. Ruth is 2-3, HR, single, 2 BB, 2 RBI, 2 R. We know Ruth hit HR off Stan in 1st inning. And reliever didn't walk anyone. So at least 1-1, HR, BB off Stan. I think either 1-1, HR, 2 BB, or 2-2, HR, single, BB off Stan.

                  8/09/24 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-3, 2B, 2 BB, K

                  8/27/24 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 0-3, BB, K

                  9/22/24 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 1-4, single, BB, K, R

                  7/26/25 - Coveleski goes 8 IP. Reliever has 1 IP, 5 BF, 1 H. Ruth is 0-4, R. Could be 0-3, R off Stan.

                  8/15/25 - Coveleski CG, Ruth 0-2, 2 BB, K

                  4/30/26 - Coveleski goes 8 IP, 10 H, 7 R (5 ER), 4 BB, 0 K. Reliever goes 1 IP, 0 H, 3 BF. Ruth hits homer off Stan in 7th inning. His line 2-4, HR, single, 2 RBI, R.

                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------


                  Dutch Leonard

                  6/05/19 - Leonard CG, Ruth 1-1, single

                  7/22/19 - Leonard CG, Ruth 0-4, 2 K's

                  7/29/19 - Leonard CG, Ruth 3-5, HR, 2 doubles, 3 RBI, 3 R

                  8/25/19 - Leonard 5 IP, 22 BF, Ruth 2-4, HR (off Leonard), single, BB. 1-1, HR (known)

                  9/17/19 - Leonard CG, 0-2, 2 BB

                  5/25/20 - Leonard CG, 1-3, HR, BB

                  6/11/20 - Leonard 8 IP. Another spitballers Ayers pitched 9th. Ruth 0-4, K

                  8/23/20 - Leonard 3 IP, 17 BF. Ruth 1-2, double, 3 BB. Ruth had 2 PA. Yanks score 3 R in 1st and 1 in 3rd inn. I think Ruth went 1-1, double, BB before Leonard taken out.

                  8/4/21 - Leonard CG, Ruth 2-3, 2 doubles, BB, 2 R

                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------


                  Ray Caldwell

                  8/10/18 - Caldwell CG, Ruth 2-4, 2 singles

                  6/12/20 - Caldwell CG, Ruth 0-3, BB

                  7/21/20 - Caldwell CG, Ruth 0-3, BB

                  8/13/20 - Caldwell CG, Ruth 1-2, single, 2 BB

                  8/19/20 - Caldwell CG, Ruth 2-3, HR, double, BB

                  9/10/20 - Caldwell 3.1 IP, 1 BB, 0 K, 17 BF. Ruth homers off him in 1st inning. Babe's line 1-5, HR, 2 K's. We know Ruth faced Caldwell twice. His HR came off him and both his K's didn't. So a known line is 1-2, HR.

                  6/9/21 - Caldwell CG, Ruth 1-3, single, BB

                  7/21/21 - Caldwell 5.2 IP, 30 BF. Uhle relieves and has 16 BF. Ruth is 1-2 with single, BB, and Bodie subs in for him and goes 1-2, double. So Ruth 3 PA, Bodie 2 PA. I think all Ruth's PA off Caldwell.

                  7/31/21 - Spitballer Sothoron starts and goes 5 IP. Caldwell pitches 6-8 innings and has 16 BF. Ruth's line 3-4, HR, triple, BB. The known is 1-1, HR off Caldwell.

                  8/23/21 - Caldwell goes 3 IP with 15 BF. Ruth hits 2 HR off him in 1st and 3rd innings. 2-2, 2 HR

                  9/25/21 - Caldwell goes 1.1 IP with 10 BF, 5 ER, 1 BB. Ruth has 1 PA off him. His line 1-3, single, 2 BB, K. Fewster subs for him and hits HR. Yanks score 21 runs. No way to say what Ruth did in that first AB.

                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 03-10-2013, 07:57 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Babe at bat Lou on deck (1).JPG
                    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...00#post2128000

                    Going through box scores on BBref...

                    Looks Gehrig batted 3rd, in front of Ruth in 1926, up until the 2nd game of double header on 9/3/26. That's when Gehrig was put behind Ruth in lineup for the first time, and stayed there.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                      [ATTACH]121517[/ATTACH]
                      http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...00#post2128000

                      Going through box scores on BBref...

                      Looks Gehrig batted 3rd, in front of Ruth in 1926, up until the 2nd game of double header on 9/3/26. That's when Gehrig was put behind Ruth in lineup for the first time, and stayed there.
                      Babe could have been #4!
                      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                        Babe could have been #4!
                        Yes sir! :guitar:

                        Poor Lou, just yet another example of Babe being right ahead of him, always overshadowed

                        Comment


                        • Ruth vs. Spitballer Stan Coveleski

                          Added the known 3 HR (3-3) from the non-complete games to totals.

                          110(+3) PA---71(+3) AB---37 BB---2 HBP

                          11 singles, 6 doubles, 1 triple, 2(+3) HR

                          46 TOTAL BASES / 74 AB = .621 SA

                          23 H + 37 BB + 2 HBP = 62 times on base / 113 PA = .548 OBP

                          23 H / 74 AB = .310 avg


                          .310/.548/.621

                          Aside from the known 3 HR within the RED dates, these are also known stats within those dates.

                          8/12/20 - 2 BB

                          6/7/21 - 1 BB

                          7/20/21 - 1 BB

                          8/2/22 - Reliever only faced 3 hitters. 3-4, 2 doubles, single

                          6/12/23 - 1 PA, either BB or single

                          7/19/24 - 1 BB

                          So we could add another 5 known BB, and it's very likely 6, along with 2 more doubles and a single.

                          Conservatively, just adding those 5 known BB, brings his OBP up to (67 times on base/113 PA) .592

                          Let's also conservatively get rid of a double from 8/2/22, making him 2-3, double, single off Stan. That raises his BA to 25/77 = .324 avg and bumps his SA up 49 TB/77 AB = .636. It takes his OBP to 69/116 = .594 OBP

                          So a known (and conservative line) is .324/.594/.636
                          Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 03-09-2013, 09:51 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Nice work, Sultan. I guess Ruth hit junkballers too. I don't believe that anyone was going to stop him over time. Granted, Hub Pruett stopped him in the beginning. But Ruth eventually figured out that screwball. I remember vividly when Fernando Valenzuela used his screwball to rack up an 9-0 record vs the NL with an era way south of 1.00. Enventually, he got figured out. But Valenzuela literally made hitters look like little leaguers for about 2 months.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
                              http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...00#post2128000

                              Going through box scores on BBref...

                              Looks Gehrig batted 3rd, in front of Ruth in 1926, up until the 2nd game of double header on 9/3/26. That's when Gehrig was put behind Ruth in lineup for the first time, and stayed there.
                              Yes,that is Ruth on deck in that photo.He has Eddie Bennett the bat boy kneeling with him in the on deck circle.Ruth habitually did this because he thought Eddie would bring him good luck.This is the first photo I have ever seen of Ruth engaging in this ritual.The Babe and Eddie were good friends.Bennett was hunched back and stood less than 5 feet.Sometimes before games Ruth would throw with Eddie and would keep throwing the ball just over Eddie`s head to the delight of the crowd.It was just an act for the crowd to get some laughs.Ruth did most of his "serious" warming up with Benny Bengough,the catcher.
                              Last edited by Nimrod; 03-09-2013, 03:46 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by pheasant View Post
                                Nice work, Sultan. I guess Ruth hit junkballers too. I don't believe that anyone was going to stop him over time. Granted, Hub Pruett stopped him in the beginning. But Ruth eventually figured out that screwball. I remember vividly when Fernando Valenzuela used his screwball to rack up an 9-0 record vs the NL with an era way south of 1.00. Enventually, he got figured out. But Valenzuela literally made hitters look like little leaguers for about 2 months.
                                Thank you. Would you care to do work on Cicotte or Faber? You can just do the known CG for now, and the known within the non-CG.

                                Comment

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