*Babe Ruth Thread*

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I stumbled across this vidoe of the Babe being hit by a pitch in the 1932 World Series and his humorous response.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/23681980

Babe-Ruth-HBP-091613.gif

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Great shot HWR, I've seen this one in a few places before, one of them the Ken Burns "Baseball'.
No where have I seen a description, not in detail, what is actually taking place, other than Bush hits Babe.
Years ago I found some text in the news archives and there is no doubt the text matches the video.

You may remember my post and text a couple or few years ago.
The game after the called shot game and obviously, the two meet again. The game before Bush was Babe's chief tormentor from the Cub bench. So far away from the dugout hurling insults at Babe, the ump orders him, get back to the dugout.

Next game and it's Bush on the mound. Bush hits Babe and Babe acting as though, it didn't hurt at all, but it did.
Making flicking motions as though to brush away a pesky insect.
What is he yelling as he trots to first base. Some where I have the article, can not locate it at this time, what he yelled to Bush.
According to Gehrig on deck, Babe's words, "hey lop ears, was that your fastball." Bush was knocked out in the first inning.
Some articles including Babe after the game, bruised and swollen forearm.

[George H Ruth]

I stumbled across this vidoe of the Babe being hit by a pitch in the 1932 World Series and his humorous response.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/23681980

[ATTACH]129022[/ATTACH]

Never will happen like that these days. Players will be too busy taking off their body armor.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I stumbled across this vidoe of the Babe being hit by a pitch in the 1932 World Series and his humorous response.

Babe was a character for sure. Always a showman but animated and honest, even on the field.

What still gets me is the helmet thing, and how getting plunked in the dome had to be in those players' minds. Anyone who has played the game, even into high school, understands how the subconscious psychological impulse impacts the physiological natural reaction. It's something to be taken into account overall, but lefty vs lefty and righty vs righty as well. For example, if you looked at Ted Williams vs lefties compared to Barry Bonds vs lefties, I think an auto boost of 10% is required in the numbers. That 10% is for comfort. Pitchers busting up and in often bring low and away afterward. Would that pitch not be more effective when throwing to a batter with no helmet?

[pheasant]

Babe was a character for sure. Always a showman but animated and honest, even on the field.

What still gets me is the helmet thing, and how getting plunked in the dome had to be in those players' minds. Anyone who has played the game, even into high school, understands how the subconscious psychological impulse impacts the physiological natural reaction. It's something to be taken into account overall, but lefty vs lefty and righty vs righty as well. For example, if you looked at Ted Williams vs lefties compared to Barry Bonds vs lefties, I think an auto boost of 10% is required in the numbers. That 10% is for comfort. Pitchers busting up and in often bring low and away afterward. Would that pitch not be more effective when throwing to a batter with no helmet?

I never played without a helmut nor against brushback pitches. However, I did hit against baseballs that were dust-colored in scrimmages. I will say that hitting against a infield-colored ball seemed to automatically add about 10 mph to the pitcher's fastball and 1 foot to his curve. I hit better in actual games because the balls were perfectly white.

I cannot imagine facing a mean pitcher that tossed brushback pitches with a tobacco ball with no helmut on. I'd quit right then and there.

Guys like Ruth and Cobb were truly fearless. Cobb watched a teammate get creamed by a Walter Johnson fastball. His teammate eventually gained consciousness and lived. Was Cobb afraid his next time up? He wasn't afraid. As a matter of fact, Cobb went and crowded the plate against Johnson's fastball because he figured it would make Johnson afraid of hitting him, which is very ironic. According to Cobb, it worked! And the stats back up Cobb's case. Cobb owned Barney after discovering that. Cobb also figured out when Ed Walsh was tossing his spitter.

And I looked it up. Ruth actually played in the game in which his teammate Carl Mays killed Ray Chapman with a pitch. Ruth got to see up close what a pitch can do. Yet he still continued to crush the ball. Guys like Ruth and Cobb literally had no fear on the baseball diamond. I read an article in which St Louis fans were tossing bottles at Ruth during the 1928 World Series. Most players would be afraid of being knocked unconscious. Ruth responded by crashing his 3rd HR that day.

The stories about Ruth and Cobb in the past blow my mind away.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I never played without a helmut nor against brushback pitches. However, I did hit against baseballs that were dust-colored in scrimmages. I will say that hitting against a infield-colored ball seemed to automatically add about 10 mph to the pitcher's fastball and 1 foot to his curve. I hit better in actual games because the balls were perfectly white.

I cannot imagine facing a mean pitcher that tossed brushback pitches with a tobacco ball with no helmut on. I'd quit right then and there.

Guys like Ruth and Cobb were truly fearless. Cobb watched a teammate get creamed by a Walter Johnson fastball. His teammate eventually gained consciousness and lived. Was Cobb afraid his next time up? He wasn't afraid. As a matter of fact, Cobb went and crowded the plate against Johnson's fastball because he figured it would make Johnson afraid of hitting him, which is very ironic. According to Cobb, it worked! And the stats back up Cobb's case. Cobb owned Barney after discovering that. Cobb also figured out when Ed Walsh was tossing his spitter.

And I looked it up. Ruth actually played in the game in which his teammate Carl Mays killed Ray Chapman with a pitch. Ruth got to see up close what a pitch can do. Yet he still continued to crush the ball. Guys like Ruth and Cobb literally had no fear on the baseball diamond. I read an article in which St Louis fans were tossing bottles at Ruth during the 1928 World Series. Most players would be afraid of being knocked unconscious. Ruth responded by crashing his 3rd HR that day.

The stories about Ruth and Cobb in the past blow my mind away.

Don't recall the pitcher's name, may have appeared right on BBF page, his words on Babe Ruth. No way you could move him off the plate, brush back pitches or knocking him down. He would just step right back into the box, same spot.
This does match up with an article I read years ago and remember the pitcher's name, Ted Lyons, White Sox. Short and right to the point, " You could not move Babe off the plate, no fear in him".

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Never held a grudge. 1932 World Series after Guy Bush called him all kinds of names from the bench in the called shot game.
Another article I have, can't find but am searching for it. Going from memory on this one below
Later in the game, may have been when Babe was going to the outfield, Bush spoke to him, told Ruth that he was playing the outfield in the wrong position for one of the Cub batters.Bush said he gave Babe a tip on how to position himself for that Cub batter.

Bush recall Babe's reply, "sure Joe" remember his recall on first names not very good.
What Bush took away from that exchange, Babe showed no anger, spoke to him just like nothing had ever happened in that one at bat, Bush hurling insults at him.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I found this Ruth article in the The Sporting News, February 08, 1969 issue. Enjoy.

Ruth TSN 02-08-69 pg 24.jpg


Ruth TSN 02-08-69 pg 25.jpg

[bluesky5]

I thought this deserved to be posted here. "The House That Ruth Built" indeed.

If your not troubled by the demolition of Yankee Stadium (in full or in part), then at minimum, try to understand its troubled birth. You might just change your mind. The Yankee owners paid a heavy price building that stadium and under very unfair and difficult circumstances.

After many years of research on the 1919 – 1923 Yankees, I wrote a book entitled “Ruthless Baseball Yankees Purified by Fire, Stadium Construction”.

See: ruthlessbaseball.com, if interested. Tony Morante gave it some very kind words.

Read on,see if you can capture the NYC / baseball climate during the design / construction time frame of the big park.

At the same time that the Yankee club was trying to build their own baseball plant, they were also at war with A.L. President Ban Johnson and five A. L. clubs ( Phil., Det., Clev., St.L., Wash.) that fell in line under his direction. They were also fighting off corruption that engulfed baseball and NYC during this time. They also had to overcome the actions of the corrupt political downtown group called Tammany Hall as well as a guy named Arnold Rothstein who managed to have his hand in everything that moved.

The two Yankee owners, Colonel’s Ruppert and Huston were not only fighting to build a stadium but to survive as a club and gain an upper hand. They felt it necessary to own their own ballpark to accomplish this very essential task.

They had to contend with: Ban Johnson leaking inside info on potential ball park sites that in turn destroyed buying opportunities, continuous construction approval delays by NYC which lead to numerous postponements in construction start dates, endless legal issues, everlasting road closing issues, actions by Charles Stoneham and John McGraw of the NL Giants such as charging excessive rents and lease termination threats at the Polo Grounds, labor strikes, adverse winter conditions, prohibition effects on Ruppert’s brewery, reoccurring Yankee cash flow problems, lasting effects of World War I on the economy, convincing bankers to finance the biggest outdoor sporting structure ever built at a time when fan impact from the 1919 black Sox scandal was at its worst, convincing the bonding companies that White Construction could handle a project bigger than anything they had ever done, serious cash flow problems for White Construction, trades ready to walk unless paid, the bank suspending all cash advances pending review of job status and the financial strength of the Yankees and White Construction to complete the job, legal issues with suppliers, growing tension between Ruppert and Huston,and the negative effects of the A.L. old boys network working against them on all fronts. Did I mention the nation wide railroad strike which delayed the steel deliveries for well over a month which badly impacted on everything. The Giants also did everything possible to counter Yankee bookings for boxing, football, etc. to weaken their financial position. The two clubs were at war.


Then there’s the finger pointing and bickering between Osborn Engineering, White Construction and the Yankees over change orders, design changes, scheduling, cost over runs, etc., etc..

There’s actually much, much more but I think you should get the point.

Without the unnecessary road blocks and opposition, I think the Yankees would have actually played the 1921 World Series in their own park as promised by Ruppert to the press, early that year. 1922 also came and went. Finally, after causing the 1923 A.L. baseball season to open one week later than planned, the stadium finally opened its doors in 1923.

Babe Ruth was bigger than all those problems. His economic clout pushed the construction process to its conclusion in spite of all the unnecessary opposition, trails and tribulations. The history at 161st and River is just incredible. I’m talking about before the first pitch was ever thrown. NYC life in the 1920’s. This stadium has too much history. If this isn’t an "historical site", what is?

[pheasant]

Glad you liked the book. It's tops on my list, followed by Jenkinson's, Creamer's, and The Babe In Red Stockings.

Pitchers back then threw a lot more pitches than people today are aware of. Think about it. Hours upon hours of train trips and other various gaps of time spent doing nothing but talking baseball and experimenting. I've said it before but it will apparently never sink in. These guys were truly pioneers in terms of trial and error. Future eras should be thanking them.

Ruth could indeed hit every kind of pitch, and it's not necessary to break every single one down, although the effort you put into that is appreciated. Lefties, spitballs, knucklers, sliders, curves, slow-balls, the fastest heaters from Grove, Johnson, and the best the Negro Leagues had to offer...it's been put to bed hopefully.

He could hit any kind of pitching, in any park, and could hit like the same Ruth. The only thing that wouldn't result in him being a similar Ruth, numbers wise, would be if they never altered Fenway, and he stayed in Boston.

I agree with this. However, Smelser's book mentioned that had the Babe played later, the slider would have slowed him down considerably and he probably wouldn't have been the Babe. I will put up that exact quote later. I've seen people state the same thing here. The book also mentioned that Uhle wasn't afraid of Ruth and went right after him. The stats that I posted above prove the contrary. Smelser's book is my favorite. But I don't agree that Ruth would have had fits with the slider. Luckily, it's much easier to look up stats nowadays. The idea that Uhle shut Ruth down with his slider is crazy, unless you consider a line of .405/.569/.622 shutting somebody down. But like you said earlier, Ruth had to hit spitballs and shineballs. I have to believe that those dirty dancing balls are at least as tricky as a slider or other more modern pitches to hit.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I agree with this. However, Smelser's book mentioned that had the Babe played later, the slider would have slowed him down considerably and he probably wouldn't have been the Babe. I will put up that exact quote later. I've seen people state the same thing here. The book also mentioned that Uhle wasn't afraid of Ruth and went right after him. The stats that I posted above prove the contrary. Smelser's book is my favorite. But I don't agree that Ruth would have had fits with the slider. Luckily, it's much easier to look up stats nowadays. The idea that Uhle shut Ruth down with his slider is crazy, unless you consider a line of .405/.569/.622 shutting somebody down. But like you said earlier, Ruth had to hit spitballs and shineballs. I have to believe that those dirty dancing balls are at least as tricky as a slider or other more modern pitches to hit.

Well...."going right after Ruth" like Uhle supposedly did, would definitely lead to crooked numbers in GHR's favor. The smart bet was to mix it up. Keep him guessing. Nothing too good. Force him to extend the zone. He still could take you deep but it was the only option. With Ruth, it really didn't matter. Spitballers, knuckleballers, sliders, the fastest heaters from Walter and Grove, screwballs, changeups...there wasn't a hand, color, or pitch Ruth couldn't hit. It's hogwash to think some "slider" pitch would slow him down...just because it's labeled as such. It's nothing more than a fast slurve which he and others back then faced routinely.

Name me a tougher circumstance as a hitter, than being.....

A) A part time hitter
B) A lefty
C) Fenway for a home park. Not just Fenway, but THAT Fenway.
D) Facing a deadball
E) Facing spitballs, shineballs, emery balls, etc

Even Goose Goslin never faced such harsh circumstances, since he had the liveball and shorter dimensions in Washington. Babe shatters a record as a not-yet developed hitter and years later people try to tear him down. Hilarious.

[Dude Paskert]

I found this Ruth article in the The Sporting News, February 08, 1969 issue. Enjoy.
...

Babe is pitching to Smead Jolley in that photo...that was also Smead's last game in the majors. He went 1 for 5 off Babe.

[SultanOfWhat]

Most of us have seen a companion photo to the one below, in which Ruth has his arms outstretched. This gives an interesting view of his physique: huge torso, huge hands, and arms that are wiry and much thinner than those of today's sluggers.





Possibly taken in the Polo Grounds clubhouse, dated probably 1920-21. My guess would be 1920, as The Babe looks quite young and thin, and he struggled with weight issues for the first time early in the 1921 season.

[SultanOfWhat]

Here is the Ultimate Power chart posted above, with the addition of the average of each slugger's 10 longest home runs (as estimated by Bill Jenkinson), as well as each player's career home run total. As the chart at the bottom suggests, there's not much of a difference between the sluggers other than Ruth:

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Did I post that?