*Babe Ruth Thread*

[Sultan_1895-1948]

SultanOfWhat posted this article awhile back...a nice addition to The Ultimate Babe Ruth Thread

Interesting toward the end how nearly dead on Chet is, about someone passing Ruth's numbers, mentioning the year 1999 and how that person would "have to be a freak." Not human, not natural, or basically a PED user.

BRsuperPlayerChetThomas.jpg

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Really Bill? Is Ruth as "famous" as Jesus Christ, Issac Newton, Julius Caesar, Plato, Socrates, Albert Einstein. Joan of Arc, William Shakespeare, Johan Gutenberg, Christopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, etc. I can go on and on. Ruth was a baseball player, nothing more. Yes, he was very famous in his time but there were other people far more famous and influential internationally than Ruth. Shoot, Charles Lindbergh dwarfed Ruth in fame and influence.

One of the great things about consolidating this thread into The Ultimate Babe Ruth Thread, is I get to read old opinions and chuckle. Hopefully Adam you have come to realize Ruth was far more than just a baseball player? That's a Los Angeles Paper Four states in between LA and the most western MLB team

XReprintSingleRuthHR.jpg

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Randy, the post you referenced was me commenting on Bill Burgess rather hyperbolic comments was about the fame" of Ruth. Yes, Ruth was very famous in America in his own time and is still famous today on a certain level. He was the greatest major leaguer ever and there's no one close to him. But on the grand scale scale of the entirety of recorded human history Ruth's fame and accomplishments are dwarfed by so many famous historical people whose influence reach centuries and millennium after they died. In 200 years Ruth will be mostly long forgotten. But historical figures like Jesus Christ, Issac Newton, Julius Caesar, Plato, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Albert Einstein. Joan of Arc, William Shakespeare, Johan Gutenberg, Christopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Napoleon Bonaparte, Archimedes, The Wright Brothers, Charles Darwin, Mozart, Beethoven, Galileo, Ghengis Khan, Marco Polo. I can go on and on. Below are two lists of the 100 most influential people in human history.

http://physics.hallym.ac.kr/~physics/course/a2u/evolution/img/toptenlistweb.pdf

http://www.wmich.edu/mus-gened/mus170/biography100

Do you really believe Babe Ruth belongs on these lists? You say Ruth is more than a baseball player. What else did he accomplish in his life away from baseball? Jackie Robinson was more than a baseball player. Robinson fought Jim Crow laws during WW II in Texas. He was court-martialed for refusing to sit at the back of an Army bus. After he retired from the Dodgers he was heavily involved in the Civil Rights movement and politics. After Robinson retired from baseball he became a corporate executive. He founded Freedom National bank in Harlem to help black people get a fair shake in acquiring bank loans. Robinson was a national director for Nelson D. Rockefeller's 1964 presidential campaign. Robinson wrote for several newspaper and he used his columns to fight racial injustice wherever he saw it. He visited the South often to protest and support the Civil Rights leaders. He even took unpopular position because he believed in them. He had a public feud with Malcolm X. Robinson detested Malcolm's X's black nationalist rhetoric and said so on print. John F. Kennedy wanted Robinson's support for the 1960 presidential campaign. When Robinson met JFK he was unimpressed by JFK and he was shocked how little JKF knew about the plight of African-Americans. Robinson refused to support JFK. Many politicians called on Robinson not to discuss baseball but to discuss current social issues like civil rights. The list goes on and on. With all do respect to Babe Ruth he was simply a baseball player, a brilliant one at that for sure, but in the end nothing more IMO.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Randy, the post you referenced was me commenting on Bill Burgess rather hyperbolic comments was about the fame" of Ruth. Yes, Ruth was very famous in America in his own time and is still famous today on a certain level. He was the greatest major leaguer ever and there's no one close to him. But on the grand scale scale of the entirety of recorded human history Ruth's fame and accomplishments are dwarfed by so many famous historical people whose influence reach centuries and millennium after they died. In 200 years Ruth will be mostly long forgotten. But historical figures like Jesus Christ, Issac Newton, Julius Caesar, Plato, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Albert Einstein. Joan of Arc, William Shakespeare, Johan Gutenberg, Christopher Columbus, Leonardo Da Vinci, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Napoleon Bonaparte, Archimedes, The Wright Brothers, Charles Darwin, Mozart, Beethoven, Galileo, Ghengis Khan, Marco Polo. I can go on and on. Below are two lists of the 100 most influential people in human history.

http://physics.hallym.ac.kr/~physics/course/a2u/evolution/img/toptenlistweb.pdf

http://www.wmich.edu/mus-gened/mus170/biography100

Do you really believe Babe Ruth belongs on these lists? You say Ruth is more than a baseball player. What else did he accomplish in his life away from baseball? Jackie Robinson was more than a baseball player. Robinson fought Jim Crow laws during WW II in Texas. He was court-martialed for refusing to sit at the back of an Army bus. After he retired from the Dodgers he was heavily involved in the Civil Rights movement and politics. After Robinson retired from baseball he became a corporate executive. He founded Freedom National bank in Harlem to help black people get a fair shake in acquiring bank loans. Robinson was a national director for Nelson D. Rockefeller's 1964 presidential campaign. Robinson wrote for several newspaper and he used his columns to fight racial injustice wherever he saw it. He visited the South often to protest and support the Civil Rights leaders. He even took unpopular position because he believed in them. He had a public feud with Malcolm X. Robinson detested Malcolm's X's black nationalist rhetoric and said so on print. John F. Kennedy wanted Robinson's support for the 1960 presidential campaign. When Robinson met JFK he was unimpressed by JFK and he was shocked how little JKF knew about the plight of African-Americans. Robinson refused to support JFK. Many politicians called on Robinson not to discuss baseball but to discuss current social issues like civil rights. The list goes on and on. With all do respect to Babe Ruth he was simply a baseball player, a brilliant one at that for sure, but in the end nothing more IMO.

Jesus Christ? George Washington?

I think you're confusing PURE IMPACT with BEING FAMOUS. Nobody in their right mind would argue that Babe Ruth had the impact of George Washington on a grand scale That is a straw man. That list isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about most famous, in their time and after. Most of those people did one thing, flash in the pan. Over and done with. There was nothing distinct about their personality that made them stand out. Again, many accomplishments had more impact, but that doesn't make for more famous or more popular. Ruth wasn't just baseball. He was the persona of an entire generation, and A PERSON people care about many decades later. Who gives a crap about the Wright Brothers or Napoleon. You really think they were/are "famous" in the sense that Ruth was/is? Not even close.

In Smelser, he mentions a survey taken by 8,813 urban schoolchildren back in 1929. They were simply asked, "Of all the persons heard, read about, or seen, whom would you most care to be like?" Ruth got 65 votes. Washington got 725, and Lincoln was third place with 154, . Ruth's 65 votes places ahead of Henry Ford, Thomas Jefferson 35, Theodore Roosevelt, and Benjamin Franklin 19. Not given options to choose from, just wide open picks...and not knowing where the poll was taken, or what ages...that tells us something. Ruth was not "just a baseball player."

The National Commemorative Society polled its member in 1968 asking whose memory should be perpetuated on the 1969 medal. Babe won over Alexander Hamilton 760-724. I bet if you polled some of those random "we know nothing about sports" websites you have referred to, they would know more details about Ruth than Joan of Arc, Aristotle, or 90% of the people you listed.

Ruth certainly went well beyond the foul lines unlike anyone before or since. He was everywhere and seemed to do everything. Movies, endorsements, public appearances. Just one example, in 1924 the Army set it up for Ruth to enlist as a private in the New York National Guard, in order to gain public interest in the Citizens Military Training Camps. Huge spectacle in Times square.

Maybe you need to come to grips with what we're talking about. I'm not going to spend the time to describe each and every example (because I couldn't....it's endless) of how Ruth influenced people, places, and things on AND OFF of the field. We'll just shake hands and part ways because it's clear I thought you understood his life better than that. More than 60 years later, fathers are bringing their sons to his grave-site. He is still the gold standard, and for good reason. I doubt 1 in 100 Americans would know, let alone care where half the guys you mentioned are buried. No doubt most would know nothing about them other than the one or two things they did that had major impact. That does not make them "famous."

How many are gonna pack an arena day in and day out to watch 99% of the people you listed? I might sit in the Polo Grounds and fall asleep as one of your famous writers recites some story...zzzzz...zzzzz

Leaving aside the trailblazing in terms of endorsements, contracts, and oh I don't know, a complete baseball style change, before it had been changed for the masses (to try and create another him)...that captured all of America and beyond....we're talking about all of his visits to anywhere and everywhere, his efforts during the war that were much publicized and appreciated.

You bring up Jackie without even realizing the impact Ruth barnstorming against Negro Leaguers meant at the time. The impact. How the small crumbs would pave the way for Jackie. The impact and weight of the words he spoke; praising Negro Leaguers. The same words which more than likely cost him a job of Yankee Manager. A lot of what you discuss revolves around race, and rightfully so. It's a huge part of our history, good and bad. When discussing Malcolm, Jackie, and whoever else, remember that people in a high position of power and influence, like Ruth was....their word carries A TON of weight. In THAT TIME, for him to take THAT POSITION and be HONEST about HIS OPINION....meant a SH+TLOAD. Don't be naive to that.

Ruth's impact was enormous. Passing him off as "just a baseball player" only shows utter ignorance. And I know you're better that that. And spare me the usual bull-bleep spoken by a few sheep on here about "hero worship" and the like. Fact is, they haven't done the research, stand way back, throw insults and words of disbelief. And when called upon or challenged there's not a peep. Just disbelief. The same disbelief displayed and expressed by those who actually saw Ruth play. So it's fitting.

I expect to see words of disbelief from newcomers. Maybe those asking questions or this and that. But we have members here who still literally post about not him being able to hit a slow ball. Are you kidding me? That's the kind of sh+t the truth tellers deal with on here. It's absurd. I do hours of research and post his known numbers against grandfathered spitballers. And we have articles and dozens of quotes stating the contrary, but yet there they are. Stating he couldn't hit slow ones.

Getting back to the topic. I sincerely hope you were just reaching way out of bounds and completely misunderstood what the issue was about. Fact is, Ruth is one of the most famous Americans in history. That cannot be debated. He is the most iconic figure and had the most impact, influence, success, fame, legendary career, of anyone who has played OUR NATIONAL PASTIME (when it still was ours) and he transcended the sport and America, into Japan, Cuba, Philippines, etc, ...and entered into more households than anyone before or since (housewives that couldn't have cared less about baseball were now asking about it and reading about it. That is a fact.

More than 60 years later people care about where he's buried, bring flowers, it matters....maybe on a level you don't understand? Thousands lined up in the rain to wait and see him lay dead. Maybe they undstood on a level you don't understand? Ruth painted masterpieces on and off the field. That's why people care. He wasn't Da Vinci. But does anyone really care anything about Da Vinci as a person? Not really. But they care about Ruth, still.

By the way, Ruth will not be forgotten in 200 years like you state. He is one of the most photographed Americans in history, accomplished things within our National Pastime that will always be referenced, and will always be one of the ultimate success stories in history, baseball, or away from baseball. Years from now, kids hopefully might start to learn the truth about one of your "heroes" on your list...Christopher Columbus......... but the story of Ruth is honest, solid, and forever true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anne-margaret-daniel/babe-ruth-f-scott-fitzgerald_b_3164009.html

http://mikeyawn.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/babe-ruth-the-politics-of-celebrity/

http://www.ibtimes.com/elvis-presley-babe-ruth-beatles-are-most-forged-autographs-2012-977810

[Herr28]

Never mind. Never mind. Just going to laugh it off.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Never mind. Never mind. Just going to laugh it off.

As was I when Marco Polo was mentioned. The average kid and even most adults only know that as a game you play in water. Now THAT'S what you call famous!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Sheesh Randy! I cannot hope to compete against your knowledge of the Babe! You win! :bowdown: I'm actually going to the bookstore to get a copy of Smelser's book today.

[bluesky5]

I'd bet 90/100 Americans know Babe Ruth was a baseball player.

[Herr28]

I'd bet 90/100 Americans know Babe Ruth was a baseball player.

Or a candy bar.

[Brian McKenna]

Steve Rushin, “The 34-Ton Bat,” Page 141

As a twenty-two-year-old rookie with the Yankees in 1933, Dixie Walker borrowed teammate Ben Chapman’s flip shades and botched a fly ball as Babe Ruth screamed at him from left field. Which was rich, as Ruth didn’t care for sunglasses – he never “accustomed” himself to the use of them – and never played the sun field. Perhaps it was that ninety-seven-degree day in his National Guard uniform, attempting to catch flies dropped from an airplane, that put Ruth off fielding baseballs beneath the hot sun. But his refusal to play the sun field accounts for his frequent switch-fielding, which saw him shuttling between left and right, in opposition to the sun’s transit across the sky. Bob Meusel was the cursed teammate forced to play the sun field every day, and liked to say that he was performing a kind of parlor trick; which is to say, Meusel wore sunglasses to protect Ruth’s eyes.

“The Babe can’t play the sun field,” his manager Bill McKechnie conceded in 1935, when Ruth was with the Boston Braves for his final season as a player, creating a dilemma for his new manager. “But he’s used to right field. Right field is the sun field in only a couple of American League parks. But it’s the sun field in six of the eight parks in our league.”

In the 1932 World Series, Ruth played left field at Wrigley because right was in the sun. “I played the sun field for 10 years and used to be fairly good,” Stengel said, “not like Babe Ruth, who they never let play those sun fields and they’d switch him with Bob Meusel, so it would not hurt his eyes.”

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Sheesh Randy! I cannot hope to compete against your knowledge of the Babe! You win! :bowdown: I'm actually going to the bookstore to get a copy of Smelser's book today.

With all respect due to Creamers "Babe" book, my take, Smelser's is the best, the most complete, wait till you read it.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I'd bet 90/100 Americans know Babe Ruth was a baseball player.

Let me put it this way. No Babe is not as famous as some of the names that came up in this thread, inventors, politicians others involved in movements, social issues........
But, he was an athlete, just a great baseball player and of course his personalty.

Told this story maybe a few years ago on this message board., will condense it.
Don't do much on Facebook but there was a Babe Ruth page there. I loaded probably a couple of hundred Babe articles and pictures on the page a couple of years ago.
Been researching Babe for years, thought I knew his impact on the public and how he is still remembered.
He is remembered far more, by more than I ever imagined. Obviously Facebook reaches far more of the public than any baseball board.
I was surprised, I received comments, replies to my posts, a couple of hundred and a few dozen emails asking for some info and photos.

Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia and some smaller countries, they know who he was.
In the states, not just young boys but a number of young girls, praising him, how he inspired them.
I even posted some of their comments on this board, that appeared on Facebook, with their names blacked out.
Posted this one, a young girl from Germany asking me if I had a photo of a young Babe with his mother, which I did and emailed it to her.
Her email was in German, had to go to Google Translator to read it.

I was so surprised at how far reaching he is still known.
He's not Winston Churchill or some of the other great movers from the past.
But, he was just a ballplayer, played his last game almost 80 years ago, passed away 65 years ago.
Some. probably most that contacted me, never saw him play a game, their parents probaby never saw him play.

Put it this way, he is probably as well known as any athlete could be, lots of years have gone by, they still know him, even in other parts of the world.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

What has to be considered here, Babe Ruth, his life his legacy goes beyond the foul lines.
Seemed like he was everywhere, appearances, exhibition games, always in the publics eye, always on the move.

In one exhibition game police were called in to stop some fans who threatened violence if they did not get their money back.
Why, because it was announced before the exhibition game that Babe was a no show, he would not be in the game.
He did show late and the game went on.

I like this one, this article some local politicians calling Babe "a menace" responsible for some not showing up for work, "lets go see The Babe".

Even funnier another article I have somewhere. Local politicians, take a vote, they vote to leave their place of work early............so they can see Babe Ruth play ball.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Just one of a kind, the public could never get enough of him.

Even in later years, 1930 Bob Shawkey managing the Yanks.
On trains Babe would at times eat in a seperate dining car. When eating with the team, it caused a commotion, other passengers constantly walking through that car to get a look at Babe.
Shawkey said, no exceptions, the team eats together. Didn't last long, here come the passengers, soon it was back to the old way. When Babe wanted to dine alone he could.

[bluesky5]

Let me put it this way. No Babe is not as famous as some of the names that came up in this thread, inventors, politicians others involved in movements, social issues........
But, he was an athlete, just a great baseball player and of course his personalty.

Told this story maybe a few years ago on this message board., will condense it.
Don't do much on Facebook but there was a Babe Ruth page there. I loaded probably a couple of hundred Babe articles and pictures on the page a couple of years ago.
Been researching Babe for years, thought I knew his impact on the public and how he is still remembered.
He is remembered far more, by more than I ever imagined. Obviously Facebook reaches far more of the public than any baseball board.
I was surprised, I received comments, replies to my posts, a couple of hundred and a few dozen emails asking for some info and photos.

Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia and some smaller countries, they know who he was.
In the states, not just young boys but a number of young girls, praising him, how he inspired them.
I even posted some of their comments on this board, that appeared on Facebook, with their names blacked out.
Posted this one, a young girl from Germany asking me if I had a photo of a young Babe with his mother, which I did and emailed it to her.
Her email was in German, had to go to Google Translator to read it.

I was so surprised at how far reaching he is still known.
He's not Winston Churchill or some of the other great movers from the past.
But, he was just a ballplayer, played his last game almost 80 years ago, passed away 65 years ago.
Some. probably most that contacted me, never saw him play a game, their parents probaby never saw him play.

Put it this way, he is probably as well known as any athlete could be, lots of years have gone by, they still know him, even in other parts of the world.

I just think the fact that most 21 year old girls can say "Babe Ruth played baseball." is pretty amazing. I don't think I know a single person who doesn't know that.