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  • Great to see after leaving the game they got along very good, doing some charity golf matches.

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    • Here's the write up about the play at 3B, pages 42 and 43 from the above mentioned book:

      And then on May 11, 1917, Ruth showed up Cobb again. As America prepared to send its young men to join the war against Germany and its allies, Babe Ruth was storming through the ranks of the American League. By the time he reached Detroit in May, the twenty-three-year-old had won six straight and was undefeated. On a frigid Friday, fans in overcoats clustered in the stands to watch him work. All afternoon, Ruth was stingy with hits.

      The Tigers were down 2-1 in the ninth when Cobb tossed aside two of his three bats and approached the plate with one out. Catcalls thundered from the Boston bench, reminding him that he had fanned earlier. But Cobb wasn't easily fazed. He dropped a bunt and beat the throw for a single. On the next play, Veach grounded to the left side of the infield, and Cobb moved to second. Suddenly, noticing that both the third baseman and shortstop were out of position, Cobb raced toward third, gambling that Ruth - whose intelligence Cobb found deficient - wouldn't cover the open base. It was the kind of daring, alert play that had earned Cobb his reputation. But Ruth surprised him. Babe raced for third, snagged the throw, and pinned Cobb, completing a rally-ending double play. Ruth "tagged Ty so viciously in the ribs that the Georgian could not get up for a couple of minutes," reported the Boston Post.

      When Harry Heilmann - who once rescued a drowning driver en route to a ball game - followed with a double, on which Cobb would have scored from second, incensed fans questioned Cobb's brazen base running. Detroit journalists defended Cobb. "He made a good play that went wrong . . . ," said Joe Jackson of The Detroit News. "Instead of blaming Cobb, the thing to do is to give the southpaw credit for both quick thinking and also for good mechanical execution." Harold Wilcox of the Detroit Times agreed, noting that Ruth defied rumors that "his head is made of the stuff with which Wayne County frequently paves its highways."
      "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
        Here's the write up about the play at 3B, pages 42 and 43 from the above mentioned book:

        And then on May 11, 1917, Ruth showed up Cobb again. As America prepared to send its young men to join the war against Germany and its allies, Babe Ruth was storming through the ranks of the American League. By the time he reached Detroit in May, the twenty-three-year-old had won six straight and was undefeated. On a frigid Friday, fans in overcoats clustered in the stands to watch him work. All afternoon, Ruth was stingy with hits.

        The Tigers were down 2-1 in the ninth when Cobb tossed aside two of his three bats and approached the plate with one out. Catcalls thundered from the Boston bench, reminding him that he had fanned earlier. But Cobb wasn't easily fazed. He dropped a bunt and beat the throw for a single. On the next play, Veach grounded to the left side of the infield, and Cobb moved to second. Suddenly, noticing that both the third baseman and shortstop were out of position, Cobb raced toward third, gambling that Ruth - whose intelligence Cobb found deficient - wouldn't cover the open base. It was the kind of daring, alert play that had earned Cobb his reputation. But Ruth surprised him. Babe raced for third, snagged the throw, and pinned Cobb, completing a rally-ending double play. Ruth "tagged Ty so viciously in the ribs that the Georgian could not get up for a couple of minutes," reported the Boston Post.

        When Harry Heilmann - who once rescued a drowning driver en route to a ball game - followed with a double, on which Cobb would have scored from second, incensed fans questioned Cobb's brazen base running. Detroit journalists defended Cobb. "He made a good play that went wrong . . . ," said Joe Jackson of The Detroit News. "Instead of blaming Cobb, the thing to do is to give the southpaw credit for both quick thinking and also for good mechanical execution." Harold Wilcox of the Detroit Times agreed, noting that Ruth defied rumors that "his head is made of the stuff with which Wayne County frequently paves its highways."
        Thank you, now I can stop looking for that article.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
          Thank you, now I can stop looking for that article.
          No problem. It is in one of the beginning chapters of this book, where the author is explaining the first few meetups between the already AL and MLB legend Ty Cobb, and the young Boston star. He went through the first time the rookie Ruth pitched against the Tigers, and is just covering some of the other big moments where Ruth would have certainly made a major impression on Cobb's mind.
          "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
            No problem. It is in one of the beginning chapters of this book, where the author is explaining the first few meetups between the already AL and MLB legend Ty Cobb, and the young Boston star. He went through the first time the rookie Ruth pitched against the Tigers, and is just covering some of the other big moments where Ruth would have certainly made a major impression on Cobb's mind.
            That had to be a sight to see, the two giants of the game on the field at the same time.
            Just to see Babe put one in orbit, or the sly one Ty, getting on base and upsetting his opponents.

            This is an indication of how Ty would look for the smallest edge, anything to help his team to a win.
            It was noticed that he had a habit when reaching first base. Facing second base he would kick the bag on the first baseline side.
            Years later he explained, it was more than a habit.

            The bases back then were not as secure as they are today.
            He was kicking the first base bag towards second base to shorten the distance. He claimed he could move the bag 3 or more inches.
            May have helped, how often do we pitcher attempting to pick off the runner on first and he could be safe or out by inches.
            Help or not, just shows how determined he was, even picking up a few inches to his advantage.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
              That had to be a sight to see, the two giants of the game on the field at the same time.
              Just to see Babe put one in orbit, or the sly one Ty, getting on base and upsetting his opponents.

              This is an indication of how Ty would look for the smallest edge, anything to help his team to a win.
              It was noticed that he had a habit when reaching first base. Facing second base he would kick the bag on the first baseline side.
              Years later he explained, it was more than a habit.

              The bases back then were not as secure as they are today.
              He was kicking the first base bag towards second base to shorten the distance. He claimed he could move the bag 3 or more inches.
              May have helped, how often do we pitcher attempting to pick off the runner on first and he could be safe or out by inches.
              Help or not, just shows how determined he was, even picking up a few inches to his advantage.
              Absolutely. Anything to get that edge, which all players have been looking for all throughout baseball history. The smartest players can find an edge and exploit it, time and again. At the end of that chapter, the author talks about the Red Sox v Connie Mack-selected team of stars that played an exhibition game at Fenway Park as a memorial benefit for Boston Globe sports editor Tim Murnane, who had passed away earlier that year. Here is the write up on Babe Ruth's shutout in that game that the Red Sox won against those all stars, 2-0 (pages 43 and 44):

              After the regular season, Ruth and Cobb faced each other again in an all-star memorial benefit for the Silver King, the late, gray-haired Boston Globe sports editor Tim Murnane. A treasured figure in baseball and Beantown, Murnane, sixty-five, had collapsed and died months earlier in the lobby of the Schubert Theater. On September 27, seventeen thousand fans came out to Fenway to pay tribute to him and to be entertained by baseball's elite players. The friendly, circus-like scrimmage, pitting the Red Sox against a team selected by Connie Mack, offered a sweet diversion from the somberness of world war.

              Boxer John L. Sullivan coached first base. Fanny Brice sold scorecards. Will Rogers rode a horse across the field at full speed while whirling a fluid lasso above his head. In one demonstration, he snared Cobb as Ty trotted past on horseback. An infield of Stuffy McInnis, Ray Chapman, Rabbit Maranville, and Buck Weaver - with an average height of five-foot-nine - dazzled the crowd with a rapid-fire, fast-practice exhibition. Players competed in contests. Mike McNally proved quickest, running to first base in three and two-fifths seconds. Dutch Leonard won for accuracy, throwing a ball from home plate into a barrel at second base. Shoeless Joe Jackson took distance honors, hurling a ball 396 feet.

              In the pregame introductions, Cobb and Walter Johnson got more applause than anyone but the hometown players. On the field, fans marveled at the sight of "the $100,000 Outfield" of Cobb, Jackson, and Tris Speaker. In a nod to each other's abilities, they rotated in right, center, and left every inning. Babe Ruth started on the mound for Boston and stymied the opposing lineup. He allowed only three hits, including a weak single by Cobb.

              Over the 1916 and 1917 seasons combined, Ruth had pitched stunningly well, winning forty-seven games and allowing fewer than two runs per nine innings. But he also pounded out five home runs and hit for an average higher than most of his teammates. He had a lusty swing, and he liked to bat. "It must be great for a club to have a pitcher that can hit like Ruth," remarked one Detroit reporter. Ruth was coming to the conclusion that he no longer wanted to be just a pitcher.

              At the Tim Murnane benefit, he and the Sox prevailed 2-0. It was a colorful afternoon filled with good fun. But the biggest single thrill for some at Fenway wasn't Boston's victory. It was the fungo contest, which Ruth won by pounding a ball further than anyone else - 402 feet. It was just a hint of what was to come.
              "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
                Absolutely. Anything to get that edge, which all players have been looking for all throughout baseball history. The smartest players can find an edge and exploit it, time and again. At the end of that chapter, the author talks about the Red Sox v Connie Mack-selected team of stars that played an exhibition game at Fenway Park as a memorial benefit for Boston Globe sports editor Tim Murnane, who had passed away earlier that year. Here is the write up on Babe Ruth's shutout in that game that the Red Sox won against those all stars, 2-0 (pages 43 and 44):

                After the regular season, Ruth and Cobb faced each other again in an all-star memorial benefit for the Silver King, the late, gray-haired Boston Globe sports editor Tim Murnane. A treasured figure in baseball and Beantown, Murnane, sixty-five, had collapsed and died months earlier in the lobby of the Schubert Theater. On September 27, seventeen thousand fans came out to Fenway to pay tribute to him and to be entertained by baseball's elite players. The friendly, circus-like scrimmage, pitting the Red Sox against a team selected by Connie Mack, offered a sweet diversion from the somberness of world war.

                Boxer John L. Sullivan coached first base. Fanny Brice sold scorecards. Will Rogers rode a horse across the field at full speed while whirling a fluid lasso above his head. In one demonstration, he snared Cobb as Ty trotted past on horseback. An infield of Stuffy McInnis, Ray Chapman, Rabbit Maranville, and Buck Weaver - with an average height of five-foot-nine - dazzled the crowd with a rapid-fire, fast-practice exhibition. Players competed in contests. Mike McNally proved quickest, running to first base in three and two-fifths seconds. Dutch Leonard won for accuracy, throwing a ball from home plate into a barrel at second base. Shoeless Joe Jackson took distance honors, hurling a ball 396 feet.

                In the pregame introductions, Cobb and Walter Johnson got more applause than anyone but the hometown players. On the field, fans marveled at the sight of "the $100,000 Outfield" of Cobb, Jackson, and Tris Speaker. In a nod to each other's abilities, they rotated in right, center, and left every inning. Babe Ruth started on the mound for Boston and stymied the opposing lineup. He allowed only three hits, including a weak single by Cobb.

                Over the 1916 and 1917 seasons combined, Ruth had pitched stunningly well, winning forty-seven games and allowing fewer than two runs per nine innings. But he also pounded out five home runs and hit for an average higher than most of his teammates. He had a lusty swing, and he liked to bat. "It must be great for a club to have a pitcher that can hit like Ruth," remarked one Detroit reporter. Ruth was coming to the conclusion that he no longer wanted to be just a pitcher.

                At the Tim Murnane benefit, he and the Sox prevailed 2-0. It was a colorful afternoon filled with good fun. But the biggest single thrill for some at Fenway wasn't Boston's victory. It was the fungo contest, which Ruth won by pounding a ball further than anyone else - 402 feet. It was just a hint of what was to come.
                Thah must have been some sight, especially the contests, running throwing and the fungo hitting.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                  Thah must have been some sight, especially the contests, running throwing and the fungo hitting.
                  I know, right! Being a second baseman myself (in my adult league in Austin), I'd love to have watched that infield display by McInnis, Chapman, Maranville and Weaver! And what an incredible outfield: Joe Jackson, Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb. I love how they rotated OF positions every inning! It must have been one helluva good time at Fenway, I can't imagine anything like it today - unless we are supposed to accept the Hoem Run Derby and "Celebrities and Stars" softball game during the All-Star break as the same type of entertainment. No sir, I'll go for what they did back in 1917! Too bad we didn't have that spectacle on film, it would be a great flick to watch during the offseason (or anytime, really with those players involved)!
                  "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

                  Comment


                  • I have a few hundred Babe Ruth photos to go through, and will share a good number of them in the coming weeks. Here are some images of the Domesticated Babe.

                    Babe and his first wife, Helen, from 1916. I suppose there's an easy joke about the marriage on "thin ice" from this image, but seeing how the relationship ended, I'll abstain. The Babe and Helen were married on October 17, 1914.




                    1921, with first wife and daughter:




                    1923:




                    1924:




                    With pooch:




                    1926:




                    The Babe with his second wife, Claire:




                    1929, with Helen again:




                    Card playing, 1930:




                    Many of us would like nothing better than to visit The Babe in his NY apartment and discuss his career over a few drinks. Here's Ruth reminiscing on New Year's Eve, 1935:

                    Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 12-28-2013, 03:03 PM.
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                    • BTW, if anyone wants to reply in reference to one or more of the photos, please don't just quote an entire post with multiple photos, but select the code for the photo(s) in question. Otherwise, it just clutters up the thread to have someone re-post 10 photos to make a comment.


                      Here are some photos from Ruth's early days in Boston.

                      Caption from auction:

                      Possibly the earliest known photograph of Babe Ruth in a major league uniform, this image is both captivating and historically important. In addition to the Babe, photographer [name on backstamp] has captured the attention of right-handed pitchers Carl Mays and Rube Foster, who are keeping their pitching arms warm. Harry Hooper and Everett Scott are also clearly identifiable. Ruth played in only five games for the Red Sox in 1914 before being sent down to the minor leagues and did not rejoin the club until spring training in 1915. We are not aware of any images of Ruth in a Red Sox uniform taken in 1914 (1914 and 1915 Red Sox road uniforms were identical; pinstripes were added in 1916), including museum collections. Photo is 4 1/5 x 3 1/2 inches.




                      I really like this one for some reason; must be the silver background and the clarity (Los Angeles Evening Herald):





                      With Boston teammate Herb Pennock, 1917.




                      Portrait:




                      As a visitor in the Polo Grounds:




                      Black-and-white image, then a colorized version:







                      I like seeing the vintage text descriptions, even with images we've seen before:




                      The Babe broke Buck Freeman's single-season home run record in 1919:




                      Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 12-28-2013, 03:19 PM.
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                      • Originally posted by brett View Post
                        The main evidence is that when the live ball came into use, the top 5% of sluggers, basically 1 guy per team, got walk rates that outdistanced the league average by far more than they ever had before. So instead of a walk leader having 70 walks in a league that averaged 45, he was getting 140 walks in a league that averaged 50 something. This shot OPS+ scores up for the top sluggers by 10-15 extra points. The high walk rate stayed high for the top 5% of sluggers until integration occurred at which point the top sluggers walks were back in line. The average player also did not get the same boost in home runs with the live ball, until about the mid 50s. Again if everyone had gotten the same proportional boost in home runs the top OPS+s drop another 10 points. 200 becomes 175. The ratios of the top to the average shot up with the live ball, and returned with integration.
                        ..........

                        Comment


                        • csh19792001: Your excerpt contains erroneous numbers. Therefore, it contains erroneous conclusions.

                          The numbers are dead wrong regarding walks.

                          First, check out the seasonal leaders in walks. They were usually a lot higher than 70 before 1920. Keep in mind that 1918 and 1919 were shortened seasons because of WWI. The average MLB team played 127 games in 1918 and 140 games in 1919.



                          http://www.baseball-reference.com/le..._leagues.shtml


                          Check out Ruth's amazing dominance of bases on balls at the advent of the "live ball era". There was one man getting 140 walks or more a season in the early years of the live ball era, and he was Babe Ruth. Ruth was truly in a league of his own:




                          Here are the league leaders in walks in the last 4 seasons of the deal ball era. They are considerably higher than your excerpt suggests, even with the war-shortened seasons of 1918-1919:




                          I'll close with a chart showing Ruth's OPS+ in the last two seasons of the dead ball era, when Ruth made the transition to a full-time outfielder:

                          Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 01-11-2014, 12:08 PM.
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                          • This is pretty simple. Not really hard to understand.

                            The average player didn't "get the same boost" early on, because the average player was not capable of taking a power approach while still achieving a high batting average.

                            Even after the rule changes, the game was not setup for, and did not reward that approach. Fields were still huge and batting average was still king.

                            Pitchers did not fear everyone the same, and for good reason. Instead of acknowledging that, and giving credit where credit is due, it's easier to punish certain guys (by dropping their career OPS+) based on the inabilities of others to do what they could do. As if they didn't earn that fear by being able to break the mold.

                            There is no question it's harder to rise higher above the mean, when the mean is taking the same approach; dictated by the game. Makes perfect sense.

                            What gets me, is the adjustments always move forward, and not backward. Issues on both sides to consider.
                            Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 01-11-2014, 12:27 PM.

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                            • I have been keeping track of the gold watches given out to the Yankees players in Yankee Stadium on April 23 1924 by Commissioner Landis for winning the 1923 World Series. I had come across 4 of these watches that have survived. Among the recipients of the surviving 4 watches were traveling secretary Mark Roth, scout RJ Connery, and scout Paul Krichell.







                              Well, a fifth watch from that series has surfaced, and it's a biggie:





                              The price? A cool $717,000.


                              [EDIT: two of the other watches sold for $33,500 and $26,300]


                              Heritage Auctions listing for the watch. You can see huge images if you have a free registration:

                              http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7100&lotNo=80030



                              News article:


                              Published February 23, 2014
                              Associated Press

                              Babe Ruth's pocket watch from the 1923 World Series sold for $717,000 Saturday at auction in New York City.

                              The pentagonal 14-karat gold watch was bought by a telephone bidder who is remaining anonymous, Heritage Auctions said.

                              The timepiece was part of a set given to Ruth and his Yankees teammates after they beat their rivals, the New York Giants, in the 1923 World Series.

                              Ruth batted .368 and hit three home runs in the series, the first of the Yankees' 27 world championships.

                              The watch is engraved with a picture of a pitcher, hitter and catcher and a ball in flight.

                              It is inscribed, "Presented by Baseball Commissioner to George H. Ruth."

                              Ruth gave the watch to a friend, Charlie Schwefel. The seller Saturday was a collector who acquired it from a member of Schwefel's family, Heritage Auctions said.


                              http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/23...test+-+Text%29



                              A photo of the watches being handed out:








                              [EDIT: I'd never noticed before, but that looks like Ruth in the background just behind Landis (standing close to his carousing buddy Bob Meusel).]
                              Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 02-23-2014, 11:03 PM.
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                              • So who's going...

                                http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/essa...istory/2167137


                                Babe Ruth left a mark on St. Pete's Spring Training history
                                Monday, February 24, 2014 5:10pm


                                Babe Ruth’s daughter, Julia Ruth Stevens, plans to visit.
                                Babe Ruth’s daughter, Julia Ruth Stevens, plans to visit.
                                On New Year's Day St. Petersburg celebrated the centennial of the World's First Airline. Now there is a second centennial to celebrate. Major League spring training began in St. Petersburg on Feb. 27, 1914, with the St. Louis Browns (now the Baltimore Orioles). While the Browns were here only a year, St. Petersburg was host to eight teams over the next 100 years. Among these was the New York Yankees who held spring training in St. Pete beginning in 1925 and ending in 1961, with a few gaps in between.

                                That team included Babe Ruth, generally regarded as the best player ever. He came to St. Pete in 1925 and continued with the Yankees until 1934, returning the following year for an encore as a member of the Boston Braves. Nicknamed "the Bambino" and "the Sultan of Swat,'' He came up as a pitcher in 1914 with the Boston Red Sox. After being traded to the Yankees, Ruth set records for home runs, slugging, RBIs, and walks. He helped the Yankees win seven pennants and four World Series titles. Ruth was the first player to hit 60 home runs in one season (1927). The bat he used to hit the first home run in Yankee Stadium in 1923 sold for $1.265 million in 2004.

                                Babe Ruth's daughter, Julia Ruth Stevens, plans to visit St. Petersburg in March to help celebrate our Baseball Centennial. Stevens, 97, has not been in St. Pete since 1943.

                                In 1919 Ruth was a member of the Red Sox. During spring training in Tampa, he hit what for years was considered his longest homer. The feat is commemorated on a plaque near Plant Field at the University of Tampa. Baseball historian Leigh Montville wrote that several sportswriters got the New York Giants right fielder to point out where the ball landed and measured the distance to home plate. They estimated Ruth's hit traveled 508 feet in the air then rolled dead 579 feet from home.

                                Coincidentally, St. Petersburg Mayor Al Lang was in Tampa to lobby the Giants to relocate to St. Petersburg for future springs when Ruth hit his homer. This inspired the mayor to push to get Ruth and the Yankees, rather than the Giants.

                                By 1934 Ruth was coming to the end of his career. Prior to spring training he came down with the flu and lost 16 pounds. He had to delay his departure and his annual birthday party at the Jungle County Club Hotel on Park Street, now Admiral Farragut Academy.

                                The Yankees practiced at Miller Huggins Field at Crescent Lake. "Babe Fools Experts by Fast Start," read the subtitle of an article in the Evening Independent. "Today, at 40, the Babe admits himself that he is all but through. He hopes to play in 100 games for the Yankees this season but finally agrees with the boys that his days as a player are numbered. … In the face of all this Ruth is enjoying probably the greatest spring of his 20-year career in the majors."

                                Ruth finished the spring with a .429 batting average, but it was on March 25 that he hit his record-breaking home run at Waterfront Park against the Braves. The best account comes from the Boston Herald.

                                In the fifth inning, "The crowd of 1,200 got the customary home run treat from Babe Ruth. He socked a Betts pitch 10,000 leagues to right field … far over the canvas and almost into the West Coast Inn, where the Braves live between games." Some are quoted as seeing the ball bounce on the front porch of the hotel. One said it was the second balcony.

                                Whether the ball rolled, bounced or hit the hotel on the fly, it has been established that it traveled 624 feet. The distance was verified by the George F. Young Company in 2008 measuring from the old plate location at Waterfront to the now-demolished West Coast Inn. According to Tim Reid of the Committee to Commemorate Babe Ruth, the West Coast Inn home run is believed to be perhaps the longest ever hit off major league pitching. Reid, an engineer, estimates the distance in the air as no less than 610 feet. Baseball historian Bill Jenkinson, author of Baseball's Ultimate Power: Ranking the All-Time Great Distance Home Run Hitters states "For many years, I have steadfastly believed that no human being could hit a baseball 600 feet, but, based upon new research on this blow, I admit I was publicly mistaken."

                                No record has been found of Ruth himself commenting on the homer at the time it was hit. But when Ruth was sick with oral cancer and making a last hurrah tour in 1948, he returned to the site of Waterfront Park Stadium. Asked what his greatest accomplishment there was, he replied "The day I hit the … ball against that … hotel!"

                                Note: Great appreciation to Tim Reid of the St. Petersburg Committee to Commemorate Babe Ruth for his help with this article.

                                Sources: Eugene Register-Guard; Evening Independent; Charles Fountain, Under the March Sun: The Story of Spring Training; William J. Jenkinson, "Long Distance Home Runs," Baseball Almanac; Kevin M. McCarthy, Babe Ruth in Florida; New York Times; Tampa Bay Times; Boston Herald; the Sporting News; Will Michaels, The Making of St. Petersburg; and Sarasota Journal.

                                Will Michaels has served as executive director and trustee of the St. Petersburg Museum of History, vice-president of the Carter G. Woodson Museum of African American History, president of St. Petersburg Preservation, and co-chair of the Tony Jannus Distinguished Aviation Society. He is the author of The Making of St. Petersburg. He may be reached at (727) 420-9195.
                                Last edited by elmer; 02-25-2014, 06:25 AM.

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