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  • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Lets get on those lazy old timers.
    I followed that Cano thread and the focus was on Cano not hustling down the line, compared to others in the game, not "old Timers''.
    Plus how many posters thought Cano's style was fine, why bust it down the line and risk injury.
    We're looking at a player here Ruth, his first game back, in June, why bust it.
    There's no need to get defensive. If you read the Cano thread then you know my stance about busting it on routine ground-outs. I'm not in favor of it. I'm not knocking Ruth in any way, shape or form. Just pointing out people's misconceptions about old time players.
    My top 10 players:

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Barry Bonds
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Willie Mays
    6. Alex Rodriguez
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Honus Wagner
    9. Lou Gehrig
    10. Mickey Mantle

    Comment


    • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
      There's no need to get defensive. If you read the Cano thread then you know my stance about busting it on routine ground-outs. I'm not in favor of it. I'm not knocking Ruth in any way, shape or form. Just pointing out people's misconceptions about old time players.
      I don't consder what I said defensive.
      I'm sure all in time periods there were others who were thought to be not hustling.
      Cano stands out in my time and it was from his rookie year.
      Being he was rookie not hustling, I mean almost a trot, a rookie.
      I'm not saying really bust it.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
        Wow, great stuff.

        Amazing how we have long threads about Robinson Cano not hustling to first base. Do people really believe that everyone hustled in the old days? Ruth was practically walking down the first base line when he grounded out!
        What do you expect from a guy like this!

        FatBabe.jpg

        LOL

        No seriously, it was a shallow pop fly to right field, not a ground out. He clearly didn't hit it well. From his swing, my bet is off the end of the bat. As a hitter, you can feel instantly whether you got good wood or not. This was one of the NOTS. And as Shoeless pointed out, it was his first game back from having abdominal surgery, something to consider.

        To you point though....has anyone said everyone hustled at all times in the old days? I don't remember ever reading that. A player wouldn't last a single season in their entire careers, if they went 100% on EVERY play. It's about picking and choosing your spots. What matters is the overall perception. It's possible that because there were more infield errors back in the day, players tended to bust it more often, even on routine grounders.

        Anyway, the perception of Ruth is that he hustled more than the norm, even for back then; sometimes too much, to a point of recklessness. Bangiing into walls, colliding with fielders, etc. Nobody talks of players back then, including Ruth, having to bandage up their legs, that basically had road-rash from sliding in those infields. Not exactly the pure, smoothly, well maintained ones of today. It's pretty impressive to play with that so often, and still continue to slide for the sake of helping the team.

        Here's an article , ironically written in 1925, that is relevant to the discussion.

        http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...23#post2125023

        Baseball Magazine, 1925

        Players Who Are Always Hustling


        There Are Not So Many Of Them As You Might Think. Just three, So Mr. Hanna
        Believes, and He Names Them Thus --- Babe Ruth, Pep Young and Charlie Jamieson


        By William B. Hanna


        Babe Ruth, Pep Young, and Charlie Jamieson – there we have the best three hustlers in Major League Baseball. They are always trying, those three, or so nearly always, that they give the impression. On apparently the most hopeless outlooks for making a play go through, they are trying and putting all they have into the effort.

        --There are other hustlers who work hard and persistently, but none with the same appearance of constant enthusiasm for work as these three and their joyous energy stands out. Naturally they accomplish more than if they didn't go about it so energetically, and if they have no other reward they have the consciousness of work well done or of having done their best.

        --Doubtless there are others fully as sincere and conscientious in their playing. Most of our professional baseball players work hard to win and try honestly to earn their pay. Take two men of superlative skill, Lajoie and Hornsby. No one can say that the former or the latter does not hustle just as faithfully as the three named, but if so they made their efforts look easier. Bob Meusel, for instance, covers ground fast without appearing to do so, and does his work with no apparently great expenditure of effort. Yet we all know there are players who frequently loaf going to first base and that there are few indeed who run out every ball hit.

        --But did anybody ever see Jamieson loaf running to first base? I never did. He gives all his fine speed to that dash to first, and he is the most persistent, persevering, indomitable ____ter in running out hits I have ever seen. He will put more into that particular branch of art than either Ruth or Young, though Young seldom runs them out at less than top speed. Ruth's hustling applies more to the other bases, and trying to the limit at bat and in the field, (missing word) __everlasting vigilance and to making bold and __ant use of the slightest break or lack of __y vigilance. Nobody can loaf on the Babe. He is a mental and physical hustler.

        --Obviously, men who hustle in the outfield as our three heroes, cover a vast acreage. There are outfielders such as Speaker, Roush, Carey, and Cobb, who are greater natural ground coverers than Ruth or Jamieson, but I’ve never seen any of them run out hits as do Jamieson and Young. Kenneth Williams is a hard-working (missing word) never giving up, heart set on winning.

        --(missing word) leftfielder I think of goes to his left as far and as hard as Jamieson and makes catches. And in the Cleveland park, where he had the room, he makes a surprising lot of catches at or beyond the foul line. As a hard fighter he stood out on one of the hardest fighting teams that ever won a pennant, The Indians of 1920. I've seen him going full tilt over to Speaker’s range and heard Speaker yell at him to "take it!" even though it looked like Speaker’s ball. Yet Jamieson doesn’t get in his boss's way.

        --That last (not despairing, but seemingly so) stride and out-thrust hand of his have caught ball after ball which appeared beyond human endeavor. You'll see this thing more frequently done by infielders on ground balls – by Collins, by Frisch, by Jackson, by Dugan (in the frictionless way Joe has) by Lee, by Harris, by Gerber – the reward of indomitable purpose backed by supreme effort.

        --Jamieson, Ruth and Young are three of the best throwers in the game, and that adds to their value as hustlers. Hustling adds to their likelihood of cutting off safe hits, and then, with a quick turn, powerful arm and determination to hold the runner, as well as instinctive knowledge of where he is, any one of them is apt to cut him down, or, if not that, to hold him so he won't take an additional base.

        --Young operates wonderfully well in going out for a fly ball and in playing the Polo Grounds wall. I think he can go out faster than Jamieson on balls hit over his head, but no faster than Ruth. The Giant right fielder is a wonder at getting the ball back to the infield for plays. His throws are fast and true, and he is always on the watch to nip unwary base runners who take a lead in turning first or second bases.

        --There was a run-up play once between first and second in which first, all of a sudden, appeared to be unguarded. The runner was on his way back there – to safety apparently. But the base wasn't unguarded. Young flashed into view from nowhere, took the throw and made the put-out. Moreover, he had started the play with a throw cut off by the pitcher for the express purpose of getting the base-runner. You don't see many outfielders starting and completing the same play.

        --You know how Young runs, humping like a camel, ungainly, but all-fired fast. Rounding second on a three-bagger or possible home run, he is the soul of inspired action, jaw thrust forward, and symbolizing to the last degree zeal and speed. Worth watching? The fans will say he is!

        --Of this three-part group of forceful, dynamic gentlemen, Ruth is the most so at the bat. Here he even hustles in repose, so to speak. His concentration is dramatic. At the plate he is the embodiment of power, all ready for the pressure on the trigger, deadly intent on hitting the ball. Yet his nimble, resourceful brain can shift to a bunt or tap to left if he so prefers.

        --Ruth is a tireless, rapid-fire hustler on the bases, outwitting the smartest outfielders, tricked but seldom himself, and constantly giving evidence of quick thinking. I’ve seen him outguess Speaker and Cobb and other luminaries.

        --The Babe in his desire to succeed, slides hard and with abandon. He never favors himself. Injuries or no injuries, he keeps on. He doesn't let injuries keep him out of the game. He goes hard in all directions for fly balls, and would go further at home for balls over his head did the right field fence of the Yankee ground permit it. This right field is a hard one to play. There is no harder hustler for a ground ball than Ruth, and the conscientiousness and speed with which he backs up a fellow fielder is shown by the number of times he relays from deep center.

        --Larry Doyle and Frank Chance typified the zealous, resolute hustler. We all remember the buoyant, aggressive Larry, and how he loved to play baseball. And as present-day players whose hustling I've often admired, I should like to mention Goslin, Manush, Rigney, Adams (Cubs), Fred Hofmann, Schang, Gowdy, Hack Wilson, ____ckson, Frisch, Jimmy Johnson, Wheat, Pinelli, Henline, Hauser, Bottomly, Heathcote, Severeid, Traynor, Sewell, Combs, Mostil and Nixon.
        Last edited by Sultan_1895-1948; 01-03-2015, 11:07 AM.

        Comment


        • Oh lord John Goodman looked just awful as the Babe. I doubt the Babe ever got within 50 lbs of what Goodman weighed in that crappy film. Ironically, Goodman in his younger years might have pulled off playing the Babe. Here is Goodman around age 28-29. Cut off the 80's mullet and put Goodman in an old Yankees uniform.

          Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 03-27-2014, 03:53 PM.
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

          Comment


          • Interesting to see Ruth and Charlie Jamieson mentioned in that article. Here they are together on "Charlie Jamieson Day" in Yankee Stadium:



            August 3, 1929 Yankee Stadium: Bronx, NY. Babe Ruth, Mayor John Hinchclife, Paterson, NJ, Charlie Jamieson (born in Paterson). 'Charlie Jamieson Day' [Another caption said 1931.]
            Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 03-27-2014, 07:58 PM.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • Why doesn't Ruth's 20.6 pitching WAR get added to his overall total of 163.0 WAR on bb-ref? Is that just up to us?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                Oh lord John Goodman looked just awful as the Babe. I doubt the Babe ever got within 50 lbs of what Goodman weighed in that crappy film. Ironically, Goodman in his younger years might have pulled off playing the Babe. Here is Goodman around age 28-29. Cut off the 80's mullet and put Goodman in an old Yankees uniform.

                This movie like the William Bendix movie was a joke.
                Babe portrayed as big clumsy oaf. An image that the non fans, general public will believe to be fact
                If I recall there was actually one scene in the Goodman bomb where Babe hits a home run. Runs to first base and a pinch runner finishes rounding the bases. I don't recall why, maybe he was hung over. Even a casual baseball fan knows that never happens, not on a home run.

                I'll never be sure because I know I will never watch this movie again.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                  This movie like the William Bendix movie was a joke.
                  Babe portrayed as big clumsy oaf. An image that the non fans, general public will believe to be fact
                  If I recall there was actually one scene in the Goodman bomb where Babe hits a home run. Runs to first base and a pinch runner finishes rounding the bases. I don't recall why, maybe he was hung over. Even a casual baseball fan knows that never happens, not on a home run.

                  I'll never be sure because I know I will never watch this movie again.
                  For me when it opened up with the child Ruth as being fat, I knew it was going to stink. The Cobb movie was equally horrible.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                    If I recall there was actually one scene in the Goodman bomb where Babe hits a home run. Runs to first base and a pinch runner finishes rounding the bases. I don't recall why, maybe he was hung over. Even a casual baseball fan knows that never happens, not on a home run.
                    That was simply the Sammy Byrd effect taken to extreme proportions. Nothing about being hung over. That happened earlier in the movie, where he showed up late, and was still buckling his belt as he stumbled to the plate LOL. The runner thing was about being fat and old. It wouldn't be "Hollywood" enough, to simply have him pinch-run for, and take over in the field, for Ruth in late innings. Let's have him only able to barely make it to first haha.

                    Comment


                    • Actually in Robert Creamer's excellent book on the Babe, he did recount a similar incident where Ruth hit a blast, got to first, was winded, and the first base coach took over and finished the run for the triple. It was in an exhibition game tho in '38 when the Babe was a coach for the Dodgers, when he DID have Goodman like girth

                      Comment


                      • Yeah, exhibition game, 43 years old, and the ball still in the yard, big difference from not being able to complete a home run trot.

                        Comment


                        • PA of a 39 year old Ruth and those who came in for him.

                          In some cases details like score or number of innings are provided for further perspective.

                          ------------Ruth------Hoag---Byrd----Combs----Walker-----Heffner-----Rolfe-----Taylor

                          4/17/34-----5---------0
                          4/18/34-----5---------1
                          4/19/34-----5---------1
                          4/25/34-----4---------0
                          4/30/34-----5---------------------------0
                          5/01/34-----5------------------0
                          5/04/34-----4------------------0
                          5/05/34-----4------------------0
                          5/06/34-----5---------0
                          5/07/34-----4------------------1 (14-1 NYY)
                          5/08/34-----4------------------0
                          5/09/34-----4------------------1 (8-4 NYY when he left)
                          5/10/34-----5------------------0 (13-3 NYY)
                          5/11/34-----4------------------3 (14 inning game)
                          5/13/34-----2------------------2 (8-0 NYY)
                          5/19/34-----5------------------0
                          5/21/34-----3---------1
                          5/24/34-----3------------------1
                          5/27/34-----5------------------1 (16-7 SLB)
                          5/28/34-----5------------------2
                          5/30/34-----3------------------2 (11 inning game)
                          6/01/34-----4------------------1
                          6/03/34-----4------------------0
                          6/08/34-----4------------------1 (11-1 NYY when left)
                          6/10/34-----4------------------0
                          6/13/34-----4------------------0
                          6/14/34-----4------------------0
                          6/15/34-----4------------------0
                          6/16/34-----4------------------0
                          6/17/34-----4------------------0
                          6/17/34-----4------------------0
                          6/20/34-----3------------------1
                          6/21/34-----2----------2 (9-3 CLE when left)
                          6/23/34-----4------------------0
                          6/24/34-----4------------------0
                          6/26/34-----3------------------0 (Ruth sub for Combs after Combs' first PA, then Byrd sub for Ruth)
                          6/27/34-----4------------------2 (11 inning game)
                          6/28/34-----4------------------0
                          7/03/34-----6---------------------------------------0 (11 inning game)
                          7/04/34-----1----------3 (4-1 NYY after one inning)
                          7/05/34-----4----------0
                          7/06/34-----4----------1
                          7/07/34-----4------------------1
                          7/08/34-----4------------------0
                          7/11/34-----4------------------1
                          7/13/34-----4------------------0
                          7/14/34-----5------------------0
                          7/16/34-----4------------------1
                          7/17/34-----4------------------1 (13-5 CLE)
                          7/18/34-----2----------4 (15-14 CLE)
                          7/22/34-----4------------------1
                          7/28/34-----5----------0
                          7/31/34-----2----------3 (9-0 NYY after two innings)
                          7/31/34-----5----------0
                          8/02/34-----5------------------0
                          8/04/34-----4------------------0
                          8/05/34-----4------------------0
                          8/10/34-----5----------0
                          8/11/34-----5----------1
                          8/12/34-----3------------------2 (7-1 NYY)
                          8/15/34-----5------------------0
                          8/17/34-----1----------0 (Ruth PH for Chapman after Chapman 3 PA, then Hoag sub for Ruth)
                          8/18/34-----4------------------1 (12 inning game)
                          8/19/34-----4------------------1
                          8/21/34-----4------------------1
                          8/22/34-----3------------------2 (9-0 NYY through six innings)
                          8/26/34-----5------------------0
                          8/26/34-----1----------0 (Ruth PH for Byrd, then Hoag sub for Ruth)
                          8/27/34-----1 (two RBI double)---------------------------------0 (Ruth PH for pitcher DeShong, Heffner PR for Ruth)
                          8/30/34-----4----------1 (8-2 NYY through 7 innings)
                          8/31/34-----4------------------0
                          9/01/34-----4----------------------------------------------------------------0
                          9/03/34-----4----------0
                          9/06/34-----4------------------0
                          9/07/34-----4------------------1
                          9/08/34-----4------------------0
                          9/09/34-----4------------------2 (14 inning game)
                          9/13/34-----1----------3
                          9/15/34-----1------------------2 (Ruth PH for Hoag, Byrd sub for Ruth)
                          9/23/34-----4----------0
                          9/23/34-----1--------------------------------------------------------------------------0 (Ruth PH for Jorgens, Taylor sub for Ruth)
                          9/24/34-----1----------3
                          9/26/34-----1--------------------------------------------------------------------------1 (Ruth PH for Jorgens, Taylor sub for Ruth)
                          9/29/34-----5----------0
                          9/30/34-----5----------0

                          Comment


                          • SWING IT BABE:

                            http://catalog.scpauctions.com/1920S...-LOT26390.aspx
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Ok, Randy, SHOELESSJOE,

                              Have you seen this Ruth photo before?


                              Ruth Getty 1.jpg
                              Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                                Ok, Randy, SHOELESSJOE,

                                Have you seen this Ruth photo before?


                                [ATTACH]137557[/ATTACH]
                                No HWR, never. I did see a pic of Babe wearing that uniform bu not this shot..

                                Comment

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