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  • You are correct Sultan. He was speaking of distance hitting contests. I.E. distance on demand. However, of note also when Ruth hit the exhibition drive was the weather. Rain indicates a low pressure atmospheric condition conducive to a reduced friction and increased distance. Another example would be Mantle's April 1953 drive over the left field bleacher in Washington.
    Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View Post
    HUH?

    His last paragraph was talking about the home run derby. In a perfect environment, where there's nothing to think about except crush a ball as far as you can. And IN THAT SETTING, nobody has hit a ball as far as Ruth did in 1925....in the rain, and dealing with two ailments. That spans many players. Many juiced players and many juiced balls. The fact that you cannot accept that speaks more about your denial than anything.

    If he were talking about "real ball game hits" he would have mentioned the Navin 570 footer or some others.

    What's a shame is that you dismiss the expert opinion and analysis of someone who is the lead authority on long distance hitting AND who has been studying Ruth for over three decades. Bill has never made Ruth out to be something he wasn't, despite naysayers suggesting that seemingly every post. Talk about tired.

    Comment


    • Just another display of the Babe's power. Sportsman's Park.
      This is 1938, out of the game for 3 years and add to that, 43 years old and out of shape.
      Check out his competition, obviously all still active, in their prime.
      Check out where they stand as power hitters a couple of years before and after 1938, some of the NL heavy hitters.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • Why not ask him, he is easily reached.

        Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
        So what was the point of that line of argument? He knows ballplayers can hit balls that far so why throw out that little extra kicker that is utterly meaningless and misleading?



        Well, yeah. If you believe everything Bill says you are unlikely to think he said something that wasn't right.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by elmer View Post
          Why not ask him, he is easily reached.
          Because they were rhetorical questions.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by elmer View Post
            Why not ask him, he is easily reached.
            Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
            Because they were rhetorical questions.
            Why, then, hasn't he even bothered to post here once over the last decade, elmer? From everything I've heard, he's a very amicable, engaging, and copious person. You seem to be his emissary here; and he was clearly quite concerned/piqued when people seriously brought into question his findings & interpretations especially with respect to this topic. You'd think if he'd take the time to compose private messages (through a liason) for them to post on this site, that he might take the time to actually engage people here, on the largest and most referenced baseball forum on the internet.

            What this site could greatly benefit from- and what we've lost in large part, one by one, in my 12 years here- is an infusion of more published authors and peer reviewed academics and historians. Jenkinson could be one of our most esteemed and erudite members.

            Comment


            • Bill is an extremely busy man.
              His business is his families sole support.
              He is not wealthy and will need to keep working
              For the forseeable future. He is often working late into the night.
              He takes time for phone calls but mostly when on the road.
              The free time he has is spent with his family. Research and writing he squeezes in. As far as I know
              He has no other planned writing projects at present. He is Patriarch of his family which frequently
              Requires his involvement. Hope this sheds light on why he does not do what we do.
              He also is in no way contentious as this forum seems allowed to be from time to time. When in conversation he will often hesitate before replying to a question to be certain his answer is well thought out. He is everything you said of him and more as you would find if you knew him. Try him out!

              Comment


              • Just read first three chapters of the Smelser bio. Nice read, very interesting stuff about St. Marys. Very little about Ruth's family though. And assumes too much about Ruth as a bad boy and no culpability on the parents. Just why the school had 1000-1500 supposed bad kids is a wonder. Smells more of family disfunction than uncontrollably bad 7 year olds.

                On the film footage, I think we'll eventually find more footage of the old stuff. But a lot of stuff has simply been tossed. I think the last big find was dug up in Canada where it was simply buried because they didn't know what to do with it. Luckily, recent construction pulled it from the ground while it was still in good shape.

                I guess there just wasn't an outlet for extensive baseball footage back in the day. They just needed highlights for newsreel footage. Guess the rest was just tossed.

                Comment


                • Interesting stuff on Ruth's evolution in the outfield:

                  Ruth Fielding.PNG
                  Ruth Fielding 2.PNG

                  In addition to the laudatory comments about Ruth's fielding there, Cobb also picked Ruth as the greatest right fielder ever (on his all time team). Despite his loathing of Ruth's style, there was no denying- even with biases abound- that Ruth was the greatest natural talent (and force of nature) that had ever graced an MLB field.

                  Comment


                  • Ruth was the big boy at St. Marys and I don't think he played much outfield there. So really he was thrown into the outfield at the major league level without any extensive training or experience. An adjustment period should be expected.

                    He could throw though so he had that part down.
                    Last edited by Brian McKenna; 08-31-2014, 09:22 PM.

                    Comment


                    • On the baserunning/caught stealing issue at hand...albeit on the other thread....

                      Ruth Baserunning.PNG

                      Ruth 3.PNG
                      Ruth 4.PNG

                      Randy, old buddy.....this one is for YOU!!

                      Comment


                      • The day Jack Dunn came calling for Ruth at St. Marys he was adament that he was looking for a pitcher. Don't think Dunn had him hit during the brief tryout, just pitch.

                        Have to wonder if Dunn really shaped Ruth's career that day and how long before he would have been signed as a position player, especially considering that he typically played positions for the school that would not fly for a lefthander in pro ball.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Brian McKenna View Post
                          The day Jack Dunn came calling for Ruth at St. Marys he was adament that he was looking for a pitcher. Don't think Dunn had him hit during the brief tryout, just pitch.

                          Have to wonder if Dunn really shaped Ruth's career that day and how long before he would have been signed as a position player, especially considering that he typically played positions for the school that would not fly for a lefthander in pro ball.
                          Dunn was deemed by many as a genius. As was his son (and emissary) in the PCL. Dunn discovered Merwin Jacobsen, Jack Bentley, and most importantly, Jack Ogden. They built one of the greatest empires in professional baseball history.....

                          Originally posted by WJackman View Post
                          I once reviewed Grove's record - game by game - at Baltimore.

                          (Thompson's editorializing on the subject):
                          For the most part he was never the team's ace and sometimes he wasn't even the second best pitcher. His control was horrible and several times walked double digit batters in a game. He piled up his wins against the lower ranked International League teams and was basically a .500 pitcher against the teams that were above .500 in the International League standings. He had trouble completing games and one had to be removed from a no-hitter in which he walked nine batters in 5 innings. He was really only the undisputed ace of the staff in 1924. None of the other big winners for Baltimore are/were household names.

                          Baltimore pitching staff:

                          1920 (Grove only partial season). Baltimore 110-43

                          John Ogden 27-9 (led lg in wins)
                          Harry Frank 25-12
                          Jack Bentley 16-3
                          Grove 12-2
                          Rudolph Kneisch 11-4

                          1921 team 119-47

                          John Ogden 31-8 (led lg in wins)
                          Grove 25-10 (.714 winning percentage for team that was .717)
                          Al Thomas 24-10

                          1922 team (115-52)

                          Ogden 24-10 (leg leg in wins)
                          Harry Frank 22-9
                          Grove 18-8 (.692 winning percentage for team that was .689) Led league with 179 walks in 303 innings
                          Al Thomas 18-9
                          Jim Parnham 16-10

                          I do believe that the rest of the staff each had at least 20 CGs while Grove had about 11. His ERA was best on the team by a wide margin but he walked 152 batters in 209 innings. Led lg in walks.

                          1923 (team 115-53 for .677 winning percentage)

                          Jim Parnham 33-7 (led league in wins)
                          Grove 27-10 (led league with 330 K's and 186 walks in 303 innings
                          Ogden 17-12
                          Al Thomas 15-12

                          1924 (Team 117-48)

                          Grove 26-6 (led league in wins and K's (231). Walked 108 in 236 innings.
                          Ogden 19-6
                          Cliff Jackson 16-8
                          Al Thomas 16-11
                          Ed Tomlin 11-2

                          According to Lefty himself, he didn't even develop a curveball until his fifth or sixth season. Unlike Walter Johnson, his fastball didn't have significant movement. He admitted he was just a thrower early on, and didn't really have an idea of how to really pitch. Like Nolan Ryan, early on he was just up there to strike every hitter out, regardless of the situation.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Brian McKenna View Post
                            Just read first three chapters of the Smelser bio. Nice read, very interesting stuff about St. Marys. Very little about Ruth's family though. And assumes too much about Ruth as a bad boy and no culpability on the parents. Just why the school had 1000-1500 supposed bad kids is a wonder. Smells more of family disfunction than uncontrollably bad 7 year olds.

                            On the film footage, I think we'll eventually find more footage of the old stuff. But a lot of stuff has simply been tossed. I think the last big find was dug up in Canada where it was simply buried because they didn't know what to do with it. Luckily, recent construction pulled it from the ground while it was still in good shape.

                            I guess there just wasn't an outlet for extensive baseball footage back in the day. They just needed highlights for newsreel footage. Guess the rest was just tossed.
                            Great to see more reading this great book.
                            Again, no put down of Creamer's great Babe book, I think it just got more ink and little was known or spoke of regarding Smelser's book.
                            Picked up mine 20 years ago and still go back to it.
                            No doubt, for sure the the greatest Babe book out there.
                            Some high praise here from two of the greatest baseball writers.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • The playing field, George Sr. and wife Kate.
                              And lets hear more about Babe at St. Mary's from the Babe himself.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                              • From all that I have researched, read over the years, one conclusion, the obvious.
                                His life, life off the field, on the field, defense or offense, driving an auto. He had no regard for his body, always went full speed and all out.

                                There is one video of Babe diving, head first to home plate, thrown out on a very close play. I doubt the head first slide was a part of the game back then.

                                I have a folder containing a number of his auto accidents, at least half a dozen, some serious, at least two rollovers.
                                One while with the Bosox, attempting to "thread the needle" in his new auto, between two trolley cars going in "opposite directions''. Auto was wrecked, unidentified woman taking to hospital.

                                One of my favorites, headlong into the bleachers, jumping out of bleachers, throws out the runner at the plate.
                                The way he lived, drove, it's a wonder he lived 53 years.
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 09-01-2014, 06:03 AM.

                                Comment

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