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Originally posted by ipitch
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No, it wasn't."No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.” -
Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
But..."steroids don't help you hit a baseball." That's what they say. With a straight face!"Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"Comment
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Just crunched some numbers. Over a period of seventeen seasons, 1918 thru 1934, Babe Ruth hit 699 home runs. This averages out to over forty home runs per season (41.117). Mind benumbing. The man was preternatural, or in the words Father Gabe Costa, Professor of Mathematics at West Point, "Every now and then there's a blip in nature and Ruth was a blip."". . . the Ruth, the whole Ruth and nothing but the Ruth . . ."Comment
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I've always said that Ruth was in his prime during the 1918-1919 seasons. Unfortunately, he only had 407 career PA going into the 1918. And those 407 PA were spread out over 4 years, which didn't allow the Bambino to get into any sort of groove whatsoever. I.e, he was at his peak physically, but not mentally yet.
When looking at 1918-1919, I'm going to exclude his August of 1918 since he was required to carry the team on his back by pitching every 4 days in order to get his team to the WS again. Ruth pitched a ton in August of 1918. He had 8 starts and a hopping 73 IP in August. He tossed a ton of pitches and completed every game, except for a 7 inning game in which he got shelled(pitched only only 3 days rest). That's 6 9 inning games, a 12 inning gem, and a 7 inning game that August. That's a ton of pitching. He still managed a 1.83 ERA and held his hitters to a .198 avg, which is what pitching more often does to the Babe: he becomes more efficient at firing the ball. But he simply couldn't hit during that time frame, which makes sense. Otherwise, he would have pitched full time his whole career.
Ruth stats, 1918-1919(excluding August of 1918 when he was required to be Superman on the mound).
668 AB, batted .316 and slugged .645. This translates to a relAVG of 1.18 and a relSLUG of 1.83. These numbers are off the charts. That relSLUG of 1.83 is mind-boggling.
Ruth from 1920-1931 as a Yankee put up a .327/.789/.736 for a 215 OPS+. His relAVG was 1.22 during that timeframe while his relSLUG was 1.79. I.e, Ruth's hitting from 1918-1919 relatively speaking was on par with his prime years on the Yankees. The only thing missing is that he didn't walk as much due to the Dead Ball era of 1918-1919(particularly in 1918 when he was still considered a full-time pitcher for the most part).
As I mentioned, his relative stats mimicked his 12 year stint in NY. However, Ruth in 1918-1919 hit in perhaps the worst park for lefties in MLB history. What gets lost in the translation is that I think Ruth would have peaked much higher than this had he been a hitter all along. I think that his relAVG and relSLUG stats would have beaten his 1920-1931 stint markedly had he taken enough PA to have the mental part down too. As a matter of fact, I don't see why they couldn't have challenged his very best seasons from 1920-1923.
What a shame. Ruth lost valuable offensive stats while he was busy pitching his team to 3 WS appearances in 4 years. However, that pitching is one of the reasons why he is the most interesting player in history, IMHO.Comment
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I haven't seen these stats about the Babe before. But he had a 1 year streak in which he hit .400 with power.
Babe Ruth (May 11, 1920 to May 10, 1921).
G....AB... R...H....2B..3B..HR..RBI..BB..SO..SB..CS..BA..OBP. ..SLG..OPS
142..463.169..186.37...9....61..146..154.74..13..1 4..402 .553 .916 1.469Last edited by pheasant; 09-02-2016, 10:53 AM.Comment
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Since NYY played at the Polo Grounds during the period highlighted above, it made me wonder how much Ruth liked it there, apologies if this has been posted before:
Babe at Yankee Stadium - 1 HR for every 14.02 PAs; .349/.487/.697
Babe at the Polo Grounds - 1 HR every 11.32 PAs; .365/.497/.828
PS Fun With Figures Dept. - so if NYY had stayed in the Polo Grounds Ruth would've had 62 more career HR, for a regular season total of 776. (Maybe.)Last edited by westsidegrounds; 09-02-2016, 12:25 PM.Comment
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I'm glad he did not spend his career at the Polo Grounds. So he hit 776 or 810, look at his home park, that would be the line spoken.Originally posted by westsidegrounds View Post
Had he remained at the Polo Grounds, I could see close to 800 home runs.
That is, if they pitched to him.
More like 700 home runs, 500+ OBA and 2500 BB.
A good number he hit there were hit over the roof. These long high drives prompted the ground crew to paint a stripe to the upper deck. Umpires having difficulty determining if the high drives left the park fair. Most parks had the foul line on the ground and maybe a painted line the height of the wall or fence.
That painted stripe to the upper deck and roof was the precursor to the foul/fair pole. For sure the foul pole would have come in a matter of time, with or without Ruth.
Ruth and Gehrig, at the Polo Grounds, scary to say the least.Comment
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Only 107 extra base hits, 61 homers, .916 SA, .514 ISO- you call that power??Originally posted by pheasant View Post
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He still would have had those 367 HR on the road, though ...Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View PostComment
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I ran Ruth's first 10 year stink while playing in Yankee Stadium from 1923-1932. When Ruth blew out his knees in August of 1932, he was never the same. He was easily on pace for another 50/150/.350 year until his knees were trashed for good. Besides, I like looking at a player's prime years anyway.
1923-1932
At home, he batted .355 and slugged .710
on road, he batted .356 and slugged .716
1923 home .411/.572/.805
1923 road .380/.521/.734
1924 home .381/.509/.758
1924 road .375/.516/.721
1925 home .291/.400/.502
1925 road .288/.383/.596
1926 home .365/.516/.722
1926 road .378/.515/.752
1927 HOME .372/.494/.775
1927 road .350/.478/.770
1928 home .331/.461/.727
1928 road .315/.465/.692
1929 home .330/.427/.679
1929 road .357/.434/.714
1930 home .373/.506/.787
1930 road .347/.481/.682
1931 home .360/.482/.670
1931 road .386/.508/.730
1932 home .318/.441/.618
1932 road .358/.496/.720
2458 ab at home, 872 hits, 1744 total base .355/.710
2528 Ab on road, 900 hits, 1809 total bases .356/.716Comment
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Just another indication, what a hitter, that bottom line, he hits at home and on the road, numbers are so close, home and away.Originally posted by pheasant View PostComment
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This guy is not for real, he can't be.
What he said in 1927 he did on the big stage in 1932.
Looking at that box score in 1927, they were not pitching to him, only one at bat.Comment
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This road batting, along with the Fenway screwjob in '18 and '19 are why his career rrOPS+ is 210, despite those great home years in Polo.Originally posted by pheasant View PostComment
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That Makes sense. If we look at his road stats for the first 13 years of his Live Ball career(1920-1932), then he hits .355 and slugs .724. That is a 13 year span with a .724 slug% on the road. To put that into perspective, Hornsby in 1922 played in a little league field and had a career high in HRS with 42, hit .401, and had the most total bases win NL history with 450, yet slugged only .722, which is 2 points lower than Ruth's 13 year stint on the road.Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948 View PostComment
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Agreed, I could see a possible 800.Originally posted by westsidegrounds View Post
Would depend, would they pitch him at home in the Polo Grounds, I could see a hugh number of walks there.Comment
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