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*Babe Ruth Thread*

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  • Great find, SHOELESSJOE3.

    The Modern Marvels link bandit12 posted had some clips of The Babe taking BP in the Polo grounds (seems to be 1921, judging by the hat):









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    • Just a quick question. Did Babe Ruth ever face Satchel Paige?
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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      • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
        Just a quick question. Did Babe Ruth ever face Satchel Paige?
        I have heard of only one account, one at bat where Satch and Babe faced off, exhibition game of course.
        Black star Buck O'neil spoke on this, once in a TV interview with Tom Snyder and also contained in the Ken Burns special, "Baseball." Possibly also in the DVD "The All Century Team."

        According to Buck, in this one at bat Ruth hit a long home run, landed in a field beyond the outfield fence. The game was held up until a young boy retrieved the ball. Satchel walked over to Ruth and Babe signed the ball, they shook hands. No info on any other at bats in that game.
        Not much to go on here, only one at bat, I'm sure Babe did not own Satchel, no one did.
        Joe Dimaggio faced Satch a few times. Joe said Paige was as tough as any pitcher he had ever faced, "his fastball left nothing but ashes in the catcher's mitt."

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        • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
          I have heard of only one account, one at bat where Satch and Babe faced off, exhibition game of course.
          Black star Buck O'neil spoke on this, once in a TV interview with Tom Snyder and also contained in the Ken Burns special, "Baseball." Possibly also in the DVD "The All Century Team."

          According to Buck, in this one at bat Ruth hit a long home run, landed in a field beyond the outfield fence. The game was held up until a young boy retrieved the ball. Satchel walked over to Ruth and Babe signed the ball, they shook hands. No info on any other at bats in that game.
          Not much to go on here, only one at bat, I'm sure Babe did not own Satchel, no one did.
          Joe Dimaggio faced Satch a few times. Joe said Paige was as tough as any pitcher he had ever faced, "his fastball left nothing but ashes in the catcher's mitt."
          I've read about that one AB. But isn't O'Neil the only source for this AB? According to Paige's 1948 autobiography, Pitchin' Man, he said his one of his major baseball disappointments was never facing the Babe. Is this AB ever mentioned in any of Ruth's biographies?
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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          • Originally posted by SultanOfWhat View Post
            Great find, SHOELESSJOE3.

            The Modern Marvels link bandit12 posted had some clips of The Babe taking BP in the Polo grounds (seems to be 1921, judging by the hat):









            Was this taken from a video, think I've see a video of this and may even have it saved on a DVD.

            Look at the bat in the top picture, the thin handle, unusual in that time period. Assuming he used that type bat in games. I did read one time that Ruth was among the first to use the thinner handled bats.
            Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 01-10-2010, 08:43 PM.

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            • Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
              I've read about that one AB. But isn't O'Neil the only source for this AB? According to Paige's 1948 autobiography, Pitchin' Man, he said his one of his major baseball disappointments was never facing the Babe. Is this AB ever mentioned in any of Ruth's biographies?
              As far as I know O'neil is the only source. As far as not appearing in that Paige bio, one black player, don't recall his name, his thought it was a matter of pride, Satch not willing to discuss that at bat. Could that be true, I have no idea.
              As far as that goes, I don't recall seing any accounts of Babe facing black pitchers in any of his bios but have seen and read comments by blacks who did face him, these were in books written about black players.

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              • Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                Was this taken from a video, think I've see a video of this and may even have it saved on a DVD.

                Look at the bat in the top picture, the thin handle, unusual in that time period. Assuming he used that type bat in games. I did read one time that Ruth was among the first to use the thinner handled bats.
                You can download the video here if you like:

                http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=94793
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                • Originally posted by SultanOfWhat View Post
                  You can download the video here if you like:

                  http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=94793
                  OK SULTAN, thanks for the info.

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                  • Originally posted by SultanOfWhat View Post
                    Great find, SHOELESSJOE3.

                    The Modern Marvels link bandit12 posted had some clips of The Babe taking BP in the Polo grounds (seems to be 1921, judging by the hat):









                    Looks a bit like a fungo bat. He once broke a slump by hitting a homer with a fungo bat.

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                    • Originally posted by stuarthouse View Post
                      Looks a bit like a fungo bat. He once broke a slump by hitting a homer with a fungo bat.

                      Got that STUART, I did comment on that in my earlier post..........that he may not have used that bat in a game. It could be a fungo.

                      Babe was always, trying something with the bats. At one time during batting practice at Shibe, using a green colored bat, banged out a few way over the rooftops outside the park. Never used it during any games.
                      That aside, bats that he did use were thinner handles than what most hitters used in his time.

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                      • Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                        Off the top of my head:

                        1B: Keith Hernandez, was my first thought (I'm a Met fan so kill me) actually Pujols is probably a better fit since he can run well enough.
                        2B: Lajoie or Morgan
                        SS: A-Rod or Wagner
                        3B: Brett
                        LF: Musial, though I'm spotty on walks or else Bonds.
                        CF: Mantle
                        RF: Aaron: [b]Ruth had the repiutation for being a great insitinctive ball player never throwing to the wrong base etc. but I always saw that as hyperbole/b], Aaron I think we know could do it all.
                        Lol....everything is hyperbole regarding Ruth isn't it. Just isn't possible that he could do so many things well. You know what also gets way too much credit, is his ability to hit for average. I mean, the guy only won ONE batting title. Absurd! Hyperbole!

                        Look, Ruth was world class in hitting for average, getting on base, hitting for power, and in throwing for power and accuracy. His fielding was spotty throughout his career...at it's best, gold glove caliber and at it's worst (excluding '32-'35) it was below average. He was a very good fielder from the mound during his pitching days. His decision making and baseball instincts were widely regarded as superb. Some reading would shed light on the opinions of teammats, peers, managers, and writers of the time.

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                        • Ruth was in general an excellent outfielder. Tris Speaker cited him as one of the top half dozen he'd seen.

                          The website linked below (run by Sean Smith, whose defensive ratings are among the most respected in the sabermetrics community) has Ruth as a +79 outfielder (Total Zone, which is an adjusted range factor) over his career, which is excellent. And that metric doesn't even factor in Ruth's throwing arm ("OF arm"), which was also excellent. When comparing fielding stats between Ruth's era and, say, the 1960s, keep in mind the absurd fielding gloves players of Ruth's era had to use, the lack of lights on overcast days and at dusk, as well as a large proportion of fans wearing white during the summer months. Ruth still did quite well, posting 204 assists versus 155 errors while playing the outfield. Tris Speaker went 449/222 assists/errors, Mays 195/141 (very similar to Ruth in that respect, though Mays had better range than Ruth), Clemente 266/140, Andruw Jones 112/45 (truly amazing fielder!).

                          http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/r/ruthb101.htm

                          Other outfielders of note (comparing players between eras is imprecise, but high positive ratings are a clear indication of excellence):

                          Andruw Jones +182 TZ, OF arm of +58
                          Paul Blair +140 TZ, OF arm of +34
                          Willie Mays +135 TZ, OF arm of +50
                          Carl Yastrzemski +131 TZ, OF arm of +54 (he knew how to play the Monster, alright!)
                          Roberto Clemente +122 TZ, OF arm of +83
                          Tris Speaker +92 TZ
                          Al Kaline +91 TZ, OF arm of +59
                          Hank Aaron +74 TZ, OF arm of +24
                          Johnny Damon +53 TZ, OF arm of -49 (giveth and taketh)
                          Stan Musial +46 TZ, OF arm of +4

                          Ty Cobb 0 TZ (works out as exactly even, or average)

                          Ted Williams -20 TZ, -10 OF arm
                          Ken Griffey, Jr. -29 TZ, -41 OF arm
                          Dave Winfield -115 TZ, OF arm of +22

                          See list of top 500 position players here:

                          http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/top500.htm

                          The stats for the earlier players should become more precise to an extent as more detailed data is entered into databases.
                          Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 01-13-2010, 05:05 PM.
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                            • Ruth's Win Shares, by season, versus other greats:



                              Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 02-01-2010, 10:30 PM.
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                              • Another character in the Babe Ruth Story. The man who discovered him at St. Mary's and hired him for his Baltimore Orioles minor league team.

                                Jack Dunn:

                                Born: October 6, 1874, Mendville, PA
                                Died: October 22, 1928, Baltimore, MD, age 54,---d. heart attack while riding horse

                                Baltimore Orioles (minor leagues) owner, 1909 - 1928

                                Babe Ruth, Lefty Grove, Joe Boley, George Bentley, Max Bishop, Fritz Maisal, Lefty Russel, Jack Ogden, George Earnshaw all played for his Orioles.

                                He bought the baseball holdings of Ned Hanlon in 1909. The Federal League placed a team in Baltimore, forcing him to take his club to Richmond VA. When the Federal League disbanded in 1915, Dunn returned to Baltimore, beginning his remarkable run.
                                Babe was signed by Jack Dunn, who owned the minor league team, the Baltimore Orioles, on February 27, 1914, as a pitcher. Before the mid-season, Dunn would sell him to the Boston Red Sox, as a pitcher.
                                Last edited by Bill Burgess; 02-05-2010, 08:46 AM.

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